1 00:00:04,190 --> 00:00:01,819 somewhere in the skies is brought to you 2 00:00:06,380 --> 00:00:04,200 by hello fresh delicious healthy food 3 00:00:06,980 --> 00:00:06,390 delivered to your door and made in your 4 00:00:08,299 --> 00:00:06,990 kitchen 5 00:00:10,250 --> 00:00:08,309 next time you're listening to the show 6 00:00:12,950 --> 00:00:10,260 while preparing your hello fresh meal 7 00:00:16,310 --> 00:00:12,960 visit hello fresh CA and use the promo 8 00:00:18,529 --> 00:00:16,320 code somewhere 54 50% off your first box 9 00:00:23,179 --> 00:00:18,539 courtesy of your friends at the Antico 10 00:00:25,460 --> 00:00:23,189 podcast network and hellofresh hey guys 11 00:00:27,589 --> 00:00:25,470 Ryan sprek here as you all know this 12 00:00:30,109 --> 00:00:27,599 summer in the skies podcast is always 13 00:00:32,269 --> 00:00:30,119 free to consume but it isn't free to 14 00:00:34,190 --> 00:00:32,279 create that's why I've started this 15 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:34,200 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00:01:50,389 --> 00:01:46,790 elusive but there are those rare times 31 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:50,399 when directly before or after a UFO 32 00:01:55,999 --> 00:01:52,770 event something just as elusive can 33 00:01:57,620 --> 00:01:56,009 often make its presence known the owl is 34 00:02:00,080 --> 00:01:57,630 a creature unlike any other 35 00:02:04,730 --> 00:02:00,090 it symbolizes many things for many 36 00:02:08,449 --> 00:02:04,740 people wisdom intuition light dark life 37 00:02:10,580 --> 00:02:08,459 and even death it is a totem that allows 38 00:02:13,130 --> 00:02:10,590 the individual to see what is usually 39 00:02:15,920 --> 00:02:13,140 hidden could these enigmatic creatures 40 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:15,930 be one of many keys to unlocking the UFO 41 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:17,450 mystery could they're almost 42 00:02:24,170 --> 00:02:20,250 synchronistic presence hold much more 43 00:02:26,390 --> 00:02:24,180 relevance than once thought today we 44 00:02:29,150 --> 00:02:26,400 speak to my Cleland author of the 45 00:02:32,990 --> 00:02:29,160 messengers owls synchronicity and the 46 00:02:34,750 --> 00:02:33,000 UFO abductee Mike has compiled hundreds 47 00:02:37,910 --> 00:02:34,760 of accounts from across the world 48 00:02:40,460 --> 00:02:37,920 ranging from UFO sightings contact and 49 00:02:41,289 --> 00:02:40,470 abduction experiences and everything in 50 00:02:43,759 --> 00:02:41,299 between 51 00:02:46,340 --> 00:02:43,769 he's written extensively about this 52 00:02:50,599 --> 00:02:46,350 topic amongst many others on his blog 53 00:02:53,300 --> 00:02:50,609 hidden experience we talked today about 54 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:53,310 those experiences and just perhaps how 55 00:02:59,630 --> 00:02:56,370 the owl may shed some light on these 56 00:03:00,860 --> 00:02:59,640 mysteriously dark phenomena Mike thanks 57 00:03:03,259 --> 00:03:00,870 so much for joining us today 58 00:03:05,300 --> 00:03:03,269 you're very welcome when I first heard 59 00:03:07,849 --> 00:03:05,310 about your work obviously everyone 60 00:03:10,789 --> 00:03:07,859 considers you the owl guy you google 61 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:10,799 your name you type an owl or UFO and you 62 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:13,410 are the first thing that always pops up 63 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:15,090 and I don't see that changing anytime 64 00:03:19,759 --> 00:03:16,370 soon 65 00:03:22,580 --> 00:03:19,769 so let's let's start with owls not in 66 00:03:24,770 --> 00:03:22,590 the the UFO abduction sense but owls in 67 00:03:27,349 --> 00:03:24,780 general these these creatures they've 68 00:03:29,599 --> 00:03:27,359 taken on many you know mythic symbology 69 00:03:31,610 --> 00:03:29,609 throughout history you once stated 70 00:03:33,890 --> 00:03:31,620 seeing through the darkness to bring 71 00:03:36,110 --> 00:03:33,900 messages could you sort of give us a 72 00:03:40,069 --> 00:03:36,120 brief history of the owl throughout 73 00:03:43,460 --> 00:03:40,079 different cultures well that's easier 74 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:43,470 said than done the owl is I mean just by 75 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:46,650 its very nature an owl is intense 76 00:03:50,929 --> 00:03:48,450 right I mean a real owl is intense 77 00:03:52,220 --> 00:03:50,939 especially the big owls little owls tend 78 00:03:54,170 --> 00:03:52,230 to be sort of cute and adorable but the 79 00:03:59,960 --> 00:03:54,180 big ones kind of be done to be sort of 80 00:04:03,259 --> 00:03:59,970 spooky and threatening so you know we're 81 00:04:05,270 --> 00:04:03,269 dealing with an animal that is that has 82 00:04:09,890 --> 00:04:05,280 a presence people recognize that I'm 83 00:04:11,750 --> 00:04:09,900 convinced that that that the cave 84 00:04:13,069 --> 00:04:11,760 dwellers of our ancient ancestors if 85 00:04:16,490 --> 00:04:13,079 they walked out and saw an owl would 86 00:04:20,090 --> 00:04:16,500 have the same visceral reaction that we 87 00:04:22,580 --> 00:04:20,100 do now which is one of I almost want to 88 00:04:24,830 --> 00:04:22,590 say I mean there's something you know 89 00:04:26,810 --> 00:04:24,840 threatening about about an owl there 90 00:04:31,580 --> 00:04:26,820 they're not I mean they have these huge 91 00:04:32,900 --> 00:04:31,590 eyes and they have this eerie stare and 92 00:04:34,909 --> 00:04:32,910 I think that just translates into 93 00:04:38,779 --> 00:04:34,919 something that that taps into us at a 94 00:04:40,550 --> 00:04:38,789 deep level so so that's sort of the 95 00:04:41,060 --> 00:04:40,560 starting point you know just you know 96 00:04:45,050 --> 00:04:41,070 straight up 97 00:04:47,810 --> 00:04:45,060 owls our intense-looking the the 98 00:04:49,070 --> 00:04:47,820 mythologies of the owl I mean if you you 99 00:04:50,870 --> 00:04:49,080 that's all over the map right I mean 100 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:50,880 it's a great big globe and there's owls 101 00:04:56,029 --> 00:04:54,210 everywhere you know it's it's you know 102 00:04:59,510 --> 00:04:56,039 the Eskimos have owls and they have owls 103 00:05:01,820 --> 00:04:59,520 down in the jungles of Peru so we all 104 00:05:04,700 --> 00:05:01,830 have you know we being you know the 105 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:04,710 world's culture collectively we all have 106 00:05:13,790 --> 00:05:09,289 these owl stories that stretch back 107 00:05:16,339 --> 00:05:13,800 forever now what we're dealing with is 108 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:16,349 trying to like pick out the the main 109 00:05:23,060 --> 00:05:18,330 thread that seems to connect all these 110 00:05:25,070 --> 00:05:23,070 so the owls are capable of you know what 111 00:05:26,750 --> 00:05:25,080 can only be called magic in some sense 112 00:05:28,939 --> 00:05:26,760 obviously it's just physiology it's 113 00:05:31,250 --> 00:05:28,949 their it's their big eyes and their soft 114 00:05:32,770 --> 00:05:31,260 feathers but they can see into the night 115 00:05:34,700 --> 00:05:32,780 they can see into the darkness 116 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:34,710 astoundingly well I've done a bunch of 117 00:05:40,670 --> 00:05:38,849 research on this and they you know they 118 00:05:44,060 --> 00:05:40,680 have nocturnal vision and they also have 119 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:44,070 silent flight in a way that is you know 120 00:05:51,830 --> 00:05:47,330 quite eerie when you see an owl flying 121 00:05:53,629 --> 00:05:51,840 so they are you know that that ability 122 00:05:56,959 --> 00:05:53,639 to see into the darkness very quickly 123 00:05:59,250 --> 00:05:56,969 translates to traveling into other 124 00:06:01,740 --> 00:05:59,260 realms this becomes a metaphor 125 00:06:05,940 --> 00:06:01,750 you know they travel into the darkness 126 00:06:09,450 --> 00:06:05,950 and then they and then they would return 127 00:06:10,890 --> 00:06:09,460 the the ancient myths would be they 128 00:06:13,740 --> 00:06:10,900 would return with a message if they're 129 00:06:16,260 --> 00:06:13,750 if the shaman has any totem animal it 130 00:06:19,730 --> 00:06:16,270 would be the owl and that's perfect 131 00:06:25,050 --> 00:06:19,740 because what the the shaman would do 132 00:06:27,630 --> 00:06:25,060 would be to you know go through some 133 00:06:29,550 --> 00:06:27,640 sort of ritual and then the shaman would 134 00:06:31,470 --> 00:06:29,560 travel to another realm that ritual 135 00:06:32,970 --> 00:06:31,480 might be meditating or rhythmic dancing 136 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:32,980 or taking some sort of psychedelic 137 00:06:38,570 --> 00:06:35,410 mushroom or something but the shaman 138 00:06:40,980 --> 00:06:38,580 would you know travel to another realm 139 00:06:42,390 --> 00:06:40,990 metaphorically obviously they're just 140 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:42,400 sitting in their Hut when they do it or 141 00:06:46,380 --> 00:06:44,530 wherever they are and then they would 142 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:46,390 return with a message now that's that's 143 00:06:50,190 --> 00:06:48,730 the that's the symbology of the owl in a 144 00:06:53,090 --> 00:06:50,200 very simple way you know what that 145 00:06:55,350 --> 00:06:53,100 message might be that's up for debate 146 00:06:57,710 --> 00:06:55,360 that you know that can be interpreted in 147 00:07:02,400 --> 00:06:57,720 any number of ways but the owl itself as 148 00:07:04,830 --> 00:07:02,410 as a as a as a physical being you know 149 00:07:08,100 --> 00:07:04,840 is connected to these ancient lures and 150 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:08,110 and and I feel strongly that these 151 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:11,170 ancient lures are acting out present day 152 00:07:15,270 --> 00:07:12,810 and when I was working on the book 153 00:07:16,290 --> 00:07:15,280 people would ask me so you know what do 154 00:07:17,730 --> 00:07:16,300 you what you've been working on lately 155 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:17,740 and I'm like well I got this book 156 00:07:21,540 --> 00:07:19,450 project oh what's it on oh well it's 157 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:21,550 about owls owls that's interesting what 158 00:07:24,420 --> 00:07:22,930 about owls and then I would have to size 159 00:07:26,910 --> 00:07:24,430 the person up right gonna check them out 160 00:07:28,980 --> 00:07:26,920 I'm gonna go okay do I drop the UFO bomb 161 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:28,990 and I was usually said oh you know it's 162 00:07:33,780 --> 00:07:30,850 about as a book about owl mythology 163 00:07:35,190 --> 00:07:33,790 which I feel was honest and and they'd 164 00:07:36,510 --> 00:07:35,200 go that's interesting and then they'd 165 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:36,520 kind of want to hear a little more about 166 00:07:41,250 --> 00:07:38,290 that so I would the case I would argue 167 00:07:44,550 --> 00:07:41,260 in that very cautious form without 168 00:07:48,690 --> 00:07:44,560 introducing the UFO weirdness was that 169 00:07:51,060 --> 00:07:48,700 the owl is performing the same role 170 00:07:52,770 --> 00:07:51,070 present-day that it that it performed 171 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:52,780 for ancient man and that what I'm 172 00:07:55,980 --> 00:07:54,610 collecting I mean you're holding the 173 00:07:58,800 --> 00:07:55,990 book in your hand or it's there nearby I 174 00:08:00,900 --> 00:07:58,810 suspect and I mean it in many ways that 175 00:08:02,700 --> 00:08:00,910 book is just a collection of one story 176 00:08:04,620 --> 00:08:02,710 after another after another of people 177 00:08:08,010 --> 00:08:04,630 who have these strange owl experiences 178 00:08:09,790 --> 00:08:08,020 and and I feel all those people are 179 00:08:14,110 --> 00:08:09,800 being genuine and and 180 00:08:16,180 --> 00:08:14,120 and my sense is that people throughout 181 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:16,190 the millennia people throughout all 182 00:08:22,899 --> 00:08:18,650 history have had odd owl experiences and 183 00:08:26,980 --> 00:08:22,909 and the the lore the mythos emerged from 184 00:08:28,450 --> 00:08:26,990 those direct experiences so so that's 185 00:08:30,490 --> 00:08:28,460 Mike sort of argue that we you know 186 00:08:33,659 --> 00:08:30,500 what's what's taking place present day 187 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:33,669 has been with us since the dawn of time 188 00:08:40,630 --> 00:08:37,370 right right and you mentioned you know 189 00:08:43,420 --> 00:08:40,640 the owl experiences throughout time you 190 00:08:45,970 --> 00:08:43,430 sort of describe this not so much as 191 00:08:47,500 --> 00:08:45,980 finding a pattern but that it was I 192 00:08:50,130 --> 00:08:47,510 believe it was in your intro you 193 00:08:53,410 --> 00:08:50,140 mentioned it's more of a mood or a vibe 194 00:08:55,680 --> 00:08:53,420 could you sort of elaborate that on that 195 00:08:58,360 --> 00:08:55,690 a little bit of what it means to you 196 00:09:00,430 --> 00:08:58,370 well yeah I mean so you know like if you 197 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:00,440 know this is owls or UFOs we're still on 198 00:09:06,790 --> 00:09:05,450 owls we're doing our feel like I'm on 199 00:09:10,569 --> 00:09:06,800 like I'm an artist and an illustrator 200 00:09:13,449 --> 00:09:10,579 rather than than a scientist or academic 201 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:13,459 right so I'm I'm working off my gut you 202 00:09:17,829 --> 00:09:14,930 know so see here two stories 203 00:09:21,819 --> 00:09:17,839 back-to-back right and you know they 204 00:09:25,150 --> 00:09:21,829 like I'm tapping into the right that the 205 00:09:27,970 --> 00:09:25,160 the mood of these stories you know the 206 00:09:31,389 --> 00:09:27,980 story might not be the same exact story 207 00:09:33,310 --> 00:09:31,399 but it has that similar vibe I mean I 208 00:09:34,990 --> 00:09:33,320 often refer back to the campfire story 209 00:09:36,639 --> 00:09:35,000 like the eerie campfire story you know 210 00:09:37,870 --> 00:09:36,649 as often those often those stories don't 211 00:09:41,170 --> 00:09:37,880 have an ending you know they're just 212 00:09:44,130 --> 00:09:41,180 meant to be evocative of a mood and and 213 00:09:46,449 --> 00:09:44,140 I find that the owl experiences 214 00:09:48,250 --> 00:09:46,459 especially you know so I'll show up at 215 00:09:50,290 --> 00:09:48,260 the point of death people see owls at 216 00:09:52,900 --> 00:09:50,300 funerals people will have an owl and on 217 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:52,910 their window and then find out that you 218 00:09:57,670 --> 00:09:55,130 know a sibling or a family member or a 219 00:09:59,829 --> 00:09:57,680 parent died at that at that moment that 220 00:10:03,490 --> 00:09:59,839 the owl was there or shortly after so 221 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:03,500 owls are you know on a very that is very 222 00:10:08,860 --> 00:10:06,370 common that the death imagery and the 223 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:08,870 connection with the passing on 224 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:12,290 especially of a loved one so and that's 225 00:10:17,620 --> 00:10:15,170 right in or woven into the mystique and 226 00:10:19,660 --> 00:10:17,630 folklore and mythology at the owls so 227 00:10:21,819 --> 00:10:19,670 you know you might hear two stories in 228 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:21,829 an academic may say well you know I put 229 00:10:24,660 --> 00:10:23,410 this on the spreadsheet and I check this 230 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:24,670 here gonna check this box here and you 231 00:10:27,389 --> 00:10:25,810 looked at the columns they don't line up 232 00:10:28,290 --> 00:10:27,399 so they're not the same story you know I 233 00:10:30,329 --> 00:10:28,300 don't know why you're comparing and 234 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:30,339 contrasting these two stories and like 235 00:10:34,829 --> 00:10:32,290 no no but these stories have a similar 236 00:10:40,019 --> 00:10:34,839 tenor you know there's a flavor to them 237 00:10:41,939 --> 00:10:40,029 it's like saying you know how does you 238 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:41,949 know like two forms of music might come 239 00:10:47,490 --> 00:10:44,410 from you know two different sections of 240 00:10:48,990 --> 00:10:47,500 the of the record store but you know 241 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:49,000 there's that there's a similarity to the 242 00:10:55,019 --> 00:10:53,050 music and that's that's not up to a you 243 00:10:57,150 --> 00:10:55,029 don't have to catalogue that and and 244 00:10:59,100 --> 00:10:57,160 dissect it with the eyes of a scientist 245 00:11:03,329 --> 00:10:59,110 you sort of have to step back and do it 246 00:11:06,030 --> 00:11:03,339 at an intuitive level um yeah I mean 247 00:11:09,420 --> 00:11:06,040 related to that you mentioned in the 248 00:11:12,059 --> 00:11:09,430 book about the Alaura vowels in cinema 249 00:11:14,309 --> 00:11:12,069 or media and I know you and I on 250 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:14,319 occasion have contacted one another when 251 00:11:20,069 --> 00:11:17,410 we've seen owls in movies or in the 252 00:11:25,100 --> 00:11:20,079 background of things what do you think 253 00:11:28,410 --> 00:11:25,110 this means in terms of the way art or I 254 00:11:30,090 --> 00:11:28,420 guess Hollywood or show business what 255 00:11:31,860 --> 00:11:30,100 does it mean to them when you see these 256 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:31,870 symbols in the movies or does it take on 257 00:11:36,870 --> 00:11:34,569 many different forms well you know I 258 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:36,880 mean that's so I mean that's you have a 259 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:38,410 haunted house movie right and then you 260 00:11:42,090 --> 00:11:39,730 know the person approaches the haunted 261 00:11:43,590 --> 00:11:42,100 house and there's an owl hooting in the 262 00:11:44,460 --> 00:11:43,600 distance right you just hear the haired 263 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:44,470 on the soundtrack 264 00:11:48,059 --> 00:11:46,930 it's you know there's no one had to plan 265 00:11:50,639 --> 00:11:48,069 that out you know wasn't like a 266 00:11:52,769 --> 00:11:50,649 conspiracy of people trying to 267 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:52,779 indoctrinate you know the the populace 268 00:11:57,030 --> 00:11:54,610 that was just the guy in the editing 269 00:12:00,480 --> 00:11:57,040 room who went got a stuck bit of audio 270 00:12:04,519 --> 00:12:00,490 footage or audio of an owl hooting and 271 00:12:07,079 --> 00:12:04,529 just overlaid it into the movie now 272 00:12:08,850 --> 00:12:07,089 that's so this is happening was 20th 273 00:12:11,370 --> 00:12:08,860 century 21st century you know owls are 274 00:12:15,329 --> 00:12:11,380 showing up in in spooky you know they're 275 00:12:16,740 --> 00:12:15,339 like little kids have you know owl 276 00:12:17,970 --> 00:12:16,750 decorations that show up in their 277 00:12:19,439 --> 00:12:17,980 elementary school thumbtack to the 278 00:12:21,689 --> 00:12:19,449 Bolton board on Halloween you know this 279 00:12:24,210 --> 00:12:21,699 is happening present day now you go back 280 00:12:26,309 --> 00:12:24,220 I mean the Bible has owls in it and I've 281 00:12:28,519 --> 00:12:26,319 carefully looked at those and tried to 282 00:12:31,170 --> 00:12:28,529 pull out the symbology of those owls and 283 00:12:33,809 --> 00:12:31,180 and it's a little murky you know like I 284 00:12:36,260 --> 00:12:33,819 don't sense any deeper meaning it seems 285 00:12:41,750 --> 00:12:36,270 to have the same meaning 286 00:12:44,450 --> 00:12:41,760 as the you know owl in the haunted house 287 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:44,460 movie because it just there's a great 288 00:12:49,730 --> 00:12:47,010 owl cameo in the Bride of Frankenstein 289 00:12:51,590 --> 00:12:49,740 you know early on in the film they're 290 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:51,600 just this this owl shows up and it just 291 00:12:54,590 --> 00:12:53,010 flies into the scene and sits on a 292 00:12:59,930 --> 00:12:54,600 little oh it's in a barn or like a 293 00:13:01,610 --> 00:12:59,940 basement about an old mill and and it's 294 00:13:04,370 --> 00:13:01,620 right before a woman dies you know she 295 00:13:05,510 --> 00:13:04,380 gets and so it you know there it is 296 00:13:07,220 --> 00:13:05,520 there's the haunted house movie there's 297 00:13:10,130 --> 00:13:07,230 the destined symbology it's like meant 298 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:10,140 to be a like a set piece in a spooky you 299 00:13:14,180 --> 00:13:12,810 know in a spooky bit of entertainment 300 00:13:16,670 --> 00:13:14,190 you know and it plays that way in the 301 00:13:19,150 --> 00:13:16,680 Bible to where these owls show up they 302 00:13:20,990 --> 00:13:19,160 don't really they're not really there 303 00:13:22,610 --> 00:13:21,000 symbolizing anything they're not really 304 00:13:23,930 --> 00:13:22,620 key to this story they're sort of used 305 00:13:25,700 --> 00:13:23,940 as a set piece people will talk about 306 00:13:28,220 --> 00:13:25,710 how bear in the desert is and they say 307 00:13:30,980 --> 00:13:28,230 it's a place of owls which is you know 308 00:13:32,870 --> 00:13:30,990 that's uh that's like how spooky the 309 00:13:35,090 --> 00:13:32,880 forest is it's a it's a place of owls 310 00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:35,100 that's the haunted house version so you 311 00:13:39,650 --> 00:13:36,570 know I think that that's so this is this 312 00:13:42,530 --> 00:13:39,660 is over 2000 years this is the owl has 313 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:42,540 had the same lure right and I think that 314 00:13:45,860 --> 00:13:44,010 I think though the darkness meant a 315 00:13:47,810 --> 00:13:45,870 whole that meant something totally 316 00:13:52,430 --> 00:13:47,820 different in the era before the electric 317 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:52,440 light yeah well in terms of your 318 00:13:57,410 --> 00:13:55,010 research of the owl experiences Mike 319 00:13:59,750 --> 00:13:57,420 this is a question from one of our 320 00:14:02,090 --> 00:13:59,760 listeners actually have you noticed any 321 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:02,100 specific type of owl that seems to be 322 00:14:06,050 --> 00:14:04,170 most prominent when these experiences 323 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:06,060 come up whether it be synchronistic or 324 00:14:11,900 --> 00:14:09,210 UFO related or just owls like you 325 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:11,910 mentioned earlier in general well I mean 326 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:13,770 not really you know I mean what's you 327 00:14:20,660 --> 00:14:19,410 know I mean so there's there's uh I mean 328 00:14:22,940 --> 00:14:20,670 obviously depends on where you are you 329 00:14:24,980 --> 00:14:22,950 know you're not gonna see a snowy owl if 330 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:24,990 you live in Florida and you're not gonna 331 00:14:30,500 --> 00:14:27,690 see you know you know barred owl if you 332 00:14:33,940 --> 00:14:30,510 live in in Arizona so there's these 333 00:14:36,530 --> 00:14:33,950 these you know so you're locked into the 334 00:14:38,180 --> 00:14:36,540 location you know like I'm like I've 335 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:38,190 sort of given up in a way like you know 336 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:41,970 I'm I'm you know people seeing you know 337 00:14:46,850 --> 00:14:43,890 owls at an appropriate time on a t-shirt 338 00:14:48,500 --> 00:14:46,860 or like it at a prescient moment on a TV 339 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:48,510 ad you know like I actually factored 340 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:50,610 those kind of things into so 341 00:14:55,460 --> 00:14:53,370 yes there's no specific owl obviously 342 00:14:56,900 --> 00:14:55,470 the most iconic owl would be the great 343 00:14:58,550 --> 00:14:56,910 horned owl and that's the North American 344 00:15:02,420 --> 00:14:58,560 owl that simply that all doesn't exist 345 00:15:04,790 --> 00:15:02,430 over in Europe so they have a different 346 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:04,800 owl that's the Eurasian Eagle Owl which 347 00:15:12,350 --> 00:15:07,770 is essentially the same thing as that is 348 00:15:14,570 --> 00:15:12,360 the bigger though that as our great 349 00:15:18,650 --> 00:15:14,580 horned owl so you know we're dealing 350 00:15:21,350 --> 00:15:18,660 with them I don't know I mean just this 351 00:15:25,430 --> 00:15:21,360 is the chance how does you know like 352 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:25,440 whatever the universe is offering up 353 00:15:28,490 --> 00:15:26,610 something you know the universe is 354 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:28,500 setting something in someone's path and 355 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:31,530 and you know tiny little owls show up to 356 00:15:35,780 --> 00:15:33,570 you know these little ow there's a lot 357 00:15:37,220 --> 00:15:35,790 of owls are very small but you know most 358 00:15:39,020 --> 00:15:37,230 people don't realize and the smaller the 359 00:15:40,970 --> 00:15:39,030 owl the less likely you will see them 360 00:15:44,540 --> 00:15:40,980 because the more likely they are to come 361 00:15:46,940 --> 00:15:44,550 out it only at night so you know if 362 00:15:49,370 --> 00:15:46,950 people won't see a saw white owl they 363 00:15:51,500 --> 00:15:49,380 might see a great gray owl because those 364 00:15:53,930 --> 00:15:51,510 are the ones that will come out at dusk 365 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:53,940 and dawn and people might actually get a 366 00:15:58,310 --> 00:15:56,490 glimpse of them right right yeah I mean 367 00:15:59,960 --> 00:15:58,320 we'll talk about the size of owls a 368 00:16:03,170 --> 00:15:59,970 little bit later because we have a lot 369 00:16:04,690 --> 00:16:03,180 to talk about in terms of that what you 370 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:04,700 know Mike I know you've had some 371 00:16:14,930 --> 00:16:09,170 extremely powerful experiences sort of a 372 00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:14,940 one defining moment of just you know a 373 00:16:21,430 --> 00:16:18,720 profound experience with several 374 00:16:25,940 --> 00:16:21,440 different owls appearing all at once 375 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:25,950 what is the owl alarm clock that you 376 00:16:30,350 --> 00:16:27,810 describe in the book because I know this 377 00:16:33,290 --> 00:16:30,360 was sort of an awakening for you what 378 00:16:33,890 --> 00:16:33,300 does this term mean to you the alarm 379 00:16:37,430 --> 00:16:33,900 clock 380 00:16:38,750 --> 00:16:37,440 um you know that's just you know like 381 00:16:40,070 --> 00:16:38,760 people say like well you know what does 382 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:40,080 it all mean you know and I kind of have 383 00:16:42,710 --> 00:16:41,370 to have an answer right I can't kind of 384 00:16:45,170 --> 00:16:42,720 just brush them off and say I don't know 385 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:45,180 which I don't know really I mean I I am 386 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:47,730 and but what I have found is there's a 387 00:16:55,430 --> 00:16:49,970 pattern where the the owl shows up at a 388 00:16:57,530 --> 00:16:55,440 point I've had a handful of people say 389 00:16:58,670 --> 00:16:57,540 this you know more than a handful you 390 00:17:00,290 --> 00:16:58,680 know people say that you know that they 391 00:17:02,210 --> 00:17:00,300 had sort of an awakening experience or 392 00:17:03,860 --> 00:17:02,220 the owl set them on a path and that was 393 00:17:05,870 --> 00:17:03,870 certainly true of my case where I saw 394 00:17:09,590 --> 00:17:05,880 bunch of owls this would be in 2006 I 395 00:17:12,199 --> 00:17:09,600 was camping as two separate camping 396 00:17:15,559 --> 00:17:12,209 events right so just only a few days 397 00:17:19,730 --> 00:17:15,569 apart same mountain range but not in the 398 00:17:21,620 --> 00:17:19,740 same location and as the Sun was setting 399 00:17:23,390 --> 00:17:21,630 you know me and the person I was camping 400 00:17:26,750 --> 00:17:23,400 with her name is Kristin we saw three 401 00:17:29,090 --> 00:17:26,760 owls at sunset a few days later we saw 402 00:17:30,590 --> 00:17:29,100 the same thing happened three owls at 403 00:17:32,210 --> 00:17:30,600 sunset I'm convinced are the same three 404 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:32,220 owls even though we weren't in the same 405 00:17:42,820 --> 00:17:39,210 spot in that moment seeing those owls I 406 00:17:45,290 --> 00:17:42,830 had the I had the very clear thought 407 00:17:49,580 --> 00:17:45,300 that this has something to do with UFOs 408 00:17:51,140 --> 00:17:49,590 and and it was it was it was that event 409 00:17:52,490 --> 00:17:51,150 you know when you get right down to it's 410 00:17:53,810 --> 00:17:52,500 not that exciting of an event right you 411 00:17:56,690 --> 00:17:53,820 know like how some owls fool around I 412 00:17:58,730 --> 00:17:56,700 landed which is unusual very unusual but 413 00:18:01,120 --> 00:17:58,740 it's not like you know it's not like 414 00:18:03,620 --> 00:18:01,130 that the heavens opened up and you know 415 00:18:05,060 --> 00:18:03,630 the angels you know came down or 416 00:18:06,650 --> 00:18:05,070 something I was just you know these are 417 00:18:10,340 --> 00:18:06,660 normal owls and in a setting where owls 418 00:18:12,140 --> 00:18:10,350 you know we're certainly around but the 419 00:18:14,660 --> 00:18:12,150 impact it had on me was really profound 420 00:18:16,669 --> 00:18:14,670 it set me on the journey that I'm on now 421 00:18:18,110 --> 00:18:16,679 the journey that created that book and 422 00:18:20,030 --> 00:18:18,120 the journey that I'm that I'm you know 423 00:18:22,010 --> 00:18:20,040 still continuing as I as I talk to you 424 00:18:22,910 --> 00:18:22,020 now and I'd answer letters and talk to 425 00:18:26,450 --> 00:18:22,920 other people who have had these 426 00:18:27,919 --> 00:18:26,460 experiences so I mean an outlet you know 427 00:18:31,310 --> 00:18:27,929 very simply an alarm clock wakes you up 428 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:31,320 right so so if someone's asleep you know 429 00:18:38,750 --> 00:18:35,490 just you know nudging them may not wake 430 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:38,760 them and shaking them you know may not 431 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:40,530 wake them either so if someone's really 432 00:18:46,549 --> 00:18:44,730 asleep you send in the owls and that's 433 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:46,559 kind of my sense and it would have to be 434 00:18:50,540 --> 00:18:49,050 for a specific reason like first it 435 00:18:52,340 --> 00:18:50,550 seems like the owls are connected to 436 00:18:54,140 --> 00:18:52,350 something and and it's it's a little 437 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:54,150 elusive what they're connected to and 438 00:19:01,370 --> 00:18:57,210 they may be one one way to look at it is 439 00:19:03,740 --> 00:19:01,380 the owl maybe the totem of the transfer 440 00:19:05,810 --> 00:19:03,750 of a transformative process right so the 441 00:19:08,180 --> 00:19:05,820 change so from being asleep to being 442 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:08,190 awake would be a change in not in that 443 00:19:10,490 --> 00:19:09,330 you know whatever getting up in the 444 00:19:12,980 --> 00:19:10,500 morning kind of thing I'm talking at a 445 00:19:16,550 --> 00:19:12,990 more deep spiritual level being awake to 446 00:19:17,270 --> 00:19:16,560 a deeper reality and and that's that's 447 00:19:20,900 --> 00:19:17,280 what the 448 00:19:22,220 --> 00:19:20,910 resonates for me after after sort of 449 00:19:25,370 --> 00:19:22,230 wallowing in this research for all these 450 00:19:28,850 --> 00:19:25,380 years right and I know you personally 451 00:19:32,630 --> 00:19:28,860 struggled for a long time with several 452 00:19:38,270 --> 00:19:32,640 experiences you had involving possible 453 00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:38,280 contact with UFO occupants UFOs in 454 00:19:43,790 --> 00:19:41,130 general and do you so you sort of 455 00:19:48,410 --> 00:19:43,800 considered this this event of 2006 with 456 00:19:52,070 --> 00:19:48,420 the Owls a culmination of of that it's 457 00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:52,080 somehow connected is that am i yeah yeah 458 00:19:55,220 --> 00:19:53,370 I mean up until that point I had been 459 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:55,230 completely denying these events I mean 460 00:19:59,720 --> 00:19:57,210 if I told the events they sound exactly 461 00:20:02,900 --> 00:19:59,730 like what anyone who's ever read a UFO 462 00:20:04,910 --> 00:20:02,910 abduction book you know the Commission 463 00:20:06,980 --> 00:20:04,920 time seeing aliens in the you know out a 464 00:20:08,990 --> 00:20:06,990 window in a yard you know seeing UFOs 465 00:20:10,850 --> 00:20:09,000 close range you know so I had these 466 00:20:13,310 --> 00:20:10,860 experiences growing up and well into my 467 00:20:16,730 --> 00:20:13,320 I'm one event took place in my 30s for 468 00:20:18,110 --> 00:20:16,740 as I was thirty years old and um and I 469 00:20:19,460 --> 00:20:18,120 managed to just deny all that I just 470 00:20:20,810 --> 00:20:19,470 push it all the way and just ignore it 471 00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:20,820 and tonight but I'll have to say at the 472 00:20:24,770 --> 00:20:23,130 same time that stuff was bubbling over a 473 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:24,780 little pressure cooker you know like the 474 00:20:28,970 --> 00:20:27,450 was just set on simmer and slowly slowly 475 00:20:31,970 --> 00:20:28,980 slowly got hotter and hotter and there 476 00:20:34,100 --> 00:20:31,980 came a point when there was sort of a 477 00:20:35,900 --> 00:20:34,110 crack in the dam and that was the the 478 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:35,910 owls were that crack in the dam and 479 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:38,850 after that the dam burst and I and I set 480 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:40,890 off on my own journey of 481 00:20:45,890 --> 00:20:43,770 self-exploration where I really said you 482 00:20:48,260 --> 00:20:45,900 know like I'm gonna I'm gonna figure 483 00:20:53,060 --> 00:20:48,270 this out I didn't figure it out my I'm 484 00:20:54,980 --> 00:20:53,070 I'm just as baffled in a way now as I 485 00:20:59,690 --> 00:20:54,990 was at any point along the thing but I 486 00:21:03,110 --> 00:20:59,700 do feel like I'm I feel like I've got a 487 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:03,120 clearer sense of what of Who I am and 488 00:21:10,670 --> 00:21:04,770 all this in this in the sense that you 489 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:10,680 know it you know like I feel that the 490 00:21:16,220 --> 00:21:13,650 events that I described and denied I'm 491 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:16,230 no longer denying those really happened 492 00:21:20,900 --> 00:21:18,450 and then they have the implication is 493 00:21:23,390 --> 00:21:20,910 exactly what they appear to be right a 494 00:21:27,500 --> 00:21:23,400 huge stuff for any experience here I can 495 00:21:29,930 --> 00:21:27,510 only imagine so we're we're in the grand 496 00:21:30,770 --> 00:21:29,940 scheme of things does synchronicity play 497 00:21:33,230 --> 00:21:30,780 into this you know 498 00:21:35,990 --> 00:21:33,240 being the second you know sort of 499 00:21:39,230 --> 00:21:36,000 subtitle of the book could you briefly 500 00:21:41,270 --> 00:21:39,240 go over what what synchronicity is where 501 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:41,280 the term sort of came from and how it 502 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:45,090 leads into into the whole owl connection 503 00:21:50,900 --> 00:21:48,210 well synchronicity is term was coined by 504 00:21:54,190 --> 00:21:50,910 Carl Jung and I think in the 1920s he 505 00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:54,200 was I was coined due to a series of 506 00:22:00,910 --> 00:21:57,450 experiences that he had in conjunction 507 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:00,920 with a physicist named Wolfgang Pauli 508 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:03,450 the the simplest definition of 509 00:22:08,510 --> 00:22:05,970 synchronicity would be a coincidence 510 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:08,520 that is meaningful to the observer and 511 00:22:12,740 --> 00:22:11,010 you know there's there's run-of-the-mill 512 00:22:14,770 --> 00:22:12,750 coincidences right the stuff is gonna 513 00:22:18,250 --> 00:22:14,780 happen all the time you know but there's 514 00:22:22,010 --> 00:22:18,260 coincidences that take on a deeper 515 00:22:23,330 --> 00:22:22,020 meaningful aspect and oftentimes it's 516 00:22:24,470 --> 00:22:23,340 very difficult to explain those to 517 00:22:25,910 --> 00:22:24,480 people it's sort of like explaining a 518 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:25,920 dream you know like oh my god this thing 519 00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:27,570 happened and right then this happened 520 00:22:32,630 --> 00:22:29,130 and then you try to explain it and it's 521 00:22:33,860 --> 00:22:32,640 so subjective that that you that people 522 00:22:37,010 --> 00:22:33,870 just kind of roll their eyes and can't 523 00:22:38,510 --> 00:22:37,020 follow you and um and I recognize that 524 00:22:40,580 --> 00:22:38,520 that's almost inherent in what a 525 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:40,590 synchronicity might you know be it's 526 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:46,890 it's meant for the individual I spoke 527 00:22:50,690 --> 00:22:48,930 with a friend of mine this is going back 528 00:22:52,070 --> 00:22:50,700 a few years ago and I kind of was on my 529 00:22:52,970 --> 00:22:52,080 high horse and I've been doing a bunch 530 00:22:54,530 --> 00:22:52,980 of research and it's one of the 531 00:22:56,810 --> 00:22:54,540 questions I asked you know people who've 532 00:22:58,550 --> 00:22:56,820 had the UFO contact experience or UFO 533 00:23:01,040 --> 00:22:58,560 abductees or whatever you term you want 534 00:23:02,630 --> 00:23:01,050 to use experiencers I would say um sigh 535 00:23:03,830 --> 00:23:02,640 what what about synchronicities you have 536 00:23:05,300 --> 00:23:03,840 synchronicities in your life and they 537 00:23:08,750 --> 00:23:05,310 usually just roll their eyes like in 538 00:23:11,630 --> 00:23:08,760 like they like you like it's like you 539 00:23:16,010 --> 00:23:11,640 know it's like trying to ask a fish if 540 00:23:18,260 --> 00:23:16,020 it ever experiences water so you know I 541 00:23:20,270 --> 00:23:18,270 said you know like so I said to my 542 00:23:22,100 --> 00:23:20,280 friend I said you know I people have the 543 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:22,110 UFO contact experience they have more 544 00:23:27,350 --> 00:23:24,450 synchronicities than the normal folks 545 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:27,360 than Joe normal she looked at me and she 546 00:23:30,890 --> 00:23:28,890 rolled her eyes and she said you know 547 00:23:34,310 --> 00:23:30,900 anyone on a spiritual path will have 548 00:23:37,940 --> 00:23:34,320 more synchronicities and immediately I 549 00:23:40,790 --> 00:23:37,950 recognized she was right and you know 550 00:23:42,759 --> 00:23:40,800 the next step the next you know if 551 00:23:46,609 --> 00:23:42,769 that's the case 552 00:23:52,369 --> 00:23:46,619 UFO abduction is a spiritual path and so 553 00:23:54,499 --> 00:23:52,379 I kind of equate UFO abduction as a 554 00:23:56,389 --> 00:23:54,509 spiritual path I mean you know fairly 555 00:23:58,729 --> 00:23:56,399 brief I said the owl is the totem animal 556 00:24:00,409 --> 00:23:58,739 of the transformative experience and you 557 00:24:03,700 --> 00:24:00,419 may you know transformative experience 558 00:24:06,229 --> 00:24:03,710 can be a shamanic initiation it can be a 559 00:24:07,789 --> 00:24:06,239 powerful meditation it can be a 560 00:24:10,129 --> 00:24:07,799 near-death experience there can be death 561 00:24:12,590 --> 00:24:10,139 itself I mean and I also will argue that 562 00:24:14,690 --> 00:24:12,600 you know the the UFO contact experience 563 00:24:16,940 --> 00:24:14,700 is transformative by its nature by its 564 00:24:18,289 --> 00:24:16,950 intent it is it transforms the 565 00:24:20,330 --> 00:24:18,299 individual not right away 566 00:24:22,009 --> 00:24:20,340 maybe over decades maybe over a lifetime 567 00:24:25,909 --> 00:24:22,019 but the individual will be transformed 568 00:24:28,460 --> 00:24:25,919 and but this synchronicity would be just 569 00:24:29,869 --> 00:24:28,470 I mean and it's also you know people use 570 00:24:32,869 --> 00:24:29,879 that over use that word a lot and I'm 571 00:24:34,399 --> 00:24:32,879 sure I do too you know sometimes people 572 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:34,409 will say like oh my god I had a dream 573 00:24:38,690 --> 00:24:36,330 and I dreamed in the dream that that 574 00:24:40,609 --> 00:24:38,700 that uh you know I was gonna see an owl 575 00:24:41,479 --> 00:24:40,619 on the ride to work today and I did see 576 00:24:43,430 --> 00:24:41,489 an owl isn't that a powerful 577 00:24:44,659 --> 00:24:43,440 synchronicity and like well that's it's 578 00:24:46,879 --> 00:24:44,669 technically not a synchronous it's a 579 00:24:49,639 --> 00:24:46,889 premonition so those are different so 580 00:24:52,999 --> 00:24:49,649 synchronicity is when you know there's a 581 00:24:55,479 --> 00:24:53,009 there's a coincidence you know so that's 582 00:24:57,590 --> 00:24:55,489 not a coincidence so you know so sue 583 00:24:59,450 --> 00:24:57,600 both of those can be powerful and 584 00:25:01,009 --> 00:24:59,460 mystical experiences but they they bunch 585 00:25:05,299 --> 00:25:01,019 ones called a premonition and one's 586 00:25:08,210 --> 00:25:05,309 called a synchronicity I know you had a 587 00:25:11,060 --> 00:25:08,220 pretty powerful by I guess coincidence 588 00:25:15,889 --> 00:25:11,070 happen in researching synchronicity you 589 00:25:17,629 --> 00:25:15,899 spoke to doctor surprise and could you 590 00:25:19,609 --> 00:25:17,639 give us you know sort of the background 591 00:25:22,190 --> 00:25:19,619 of how you came to find his work and 592 00:25:24,379 --> 00:25:22,200 just exactly what happened when you 593 00:25:29,749 --> 00:25:24,389 looked further into his work and found 594 00:25:32,659 --> 00:25:29,759 some yearly similar yeah it turned into 595 00:25:37,220 --> 00:25:32,669 a whole chapter of the book and it was 596 00:25:38,989 --> 00:25:37,230 great it was I I heard it on a podcast 597 00:25:40,220 --> 00:25:38,999 he had a book he was promoting a book 598 00:25:41,389 --> 00:25:40,230 straight up he'd written a book he's 599 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:41,399 promoting it he's doing the podcast 600 00:25:45,859 --> 00:25:44,730 scene you know he's talking about um his 601 00:25:47,690 --> 00:25:45,869 book the book title of the book of 602 00:25:52,609 --> 00:25:47,700 synchronicity his name is dr. Kirby 603 00:25:54,070 --> 00:25:52,619 surprise which is a great name and I you 604 00:25:56,270 --> 00:25:54,080 know he'd get a real thoughtful 605 00:25:58,730 --> 00:25:56,280 set of ideas about 606 00:26:02,299 --> 00:25:58,740 the source of synchronicity is his he 607 00:26:05,149 --> 00:26:02,309 argues that the observer the individual 608 00:26:07,430 --> 00:26:05,159 is creating the synchronicity that we as 609 00:26:11,419 --> 00:26:07,440 individuals our consciousness our 610 00:26:14,870 --> 00:26:11,429 intention can affect reality so so you 611 00:26:16,130 --> 00:26:14,880 take a you know in a scientific 612 00:26:17,539 --> 00:26:16,140 experiment you know someone rolls the 613 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:17,549 dice right and then they do it a hundred 614 00:26:21,740 --> 00:26:19,650 times and then they're trying to create 615 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:21,750 a you know get more one one number 616 00:26:26,210 --> 00:26:24,330 series more than another it should be 617 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:26,220 random right they flip a coin they do it 618 00:26:29,659 --> 00:26:27,570 a hundred times they try to get heads 619 00:26:32,360 --> 00:26:29,669 more than tails should be random it's 620 00:26:36,649 --> 00:26:32,370 not what happens is that that people 621 00:26:38,090 --> 00:26:36,659 will get you know if they want heads 622 00:26:40,820 --> 00:26:38,100 more than tails so get heads more than 623 00:26:43,039 --> 00:26:40,830 tails and this has been known in the 624 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:43,049 sciences for nearly a hundred years and 625 00:26:48,799 --> 00:26:45,770 nobody wants to like really you know 626 00:26:51,710 --> 00:26:48,809 tackle this one the implication is that 627 00:26:55,250 --> 00:26:51,720 that the individual the guy flipping the 628 00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:55,260 coin is affecting reality he's affecting 629 00:26:58,820 --> 00:26:57,330 the way the coin lands and the same 630 00:27:00,320 --> 00:26:58,830 thing could be said of synchronicity the 631 00:27:01,909 --> 00:27:00,330 individual according to dr. Kirby 632 00:27:03,950 --> 00:27:01,919 surprise I'm a little I like the magical 633 00:27:07,820 --> 00:27:03,960 aspect of it he's he says it's welling 634 00:27:09,140 --> 00:27:07,830 up from the person so um so I call him 635 00:27:11,779 --> 00:27:09,150 up or I sued me I sent him an email and 636 00:27:14,180 --> 00:27:11,789 I say I'm paraphrasing this from memory 637 00:27:16,490 --> 00:27:14,190 it's in the book verbatim from the from 638 00:27:18,049 --> 00:27:16,500 the actual email and I say I'm listen 639 00:27:20,180 --> 00:27:18,059 I'm doing this research I've had these 640 00:27:23,270 --> 00:27:20,190 UFO experiences I'm talking to a lot of 641 00:27:26,870 --> 00:27:23,280 UFO contactee and experiencers and from 642 00:27:29,659 --> 00:27:26,880 from what I can glean they're having 643 00:27:33,620 --> 00:27:29,669 more you or more synchronicities than in 644 00:27:38,210 --> 00:27:33,630 the rest of the population and he gets 645 00:27:40,490 --> 00:27:38,220 back to me says you know I've had smite 646 00:27:43,570 --> 00:27:40,500 roam direct experience with UFOs and and 647 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:43,580 and that's not how it works 648 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:46,770 and I'm like wait a minute the guy who 649 00:27:51,140 --> 00:27:49,530 writes a book about synchronicity says 650 00:27:52,370 --> 00:27:51,150 he's had his own UFO experiences and he 651 00:27:54,230 --> 00:27:52,380 writes a book about synchronicity and 652 00:27:56,270 --> 00:27:54,240 and he's kind of proving my point right 653 00:27:57,830 --> 00:27:56,280 that they're connected it's so so I kind 654 00:27:59,510 --> 00:27:57,840 of like said as much in the follow-up 655 00:28:00,710 --> 00:27:59,520 letter and he's got like okay look you 656 00:28:02,060 --> 00:28:00,720 just get the book read the book and 657 00:28:05,419 --> 00:28:02,070 let's talk so I got the book I read the 658 00:28:07,460 --> 00:28:05,429 book and a camera what page it's on it's 659 00:28:08,779 --> 00:28:07,470 like on page you know 226 you know so I 660 00:28:09,980 --> 00:28:08,789 turn the page I get to this thing and I 661 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:09,990 scroll down and he's described 662 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:13,850 how the individual can can ask 663 00:28:20,210 --> 00:28:16,490 synchronicity you know just like ask of 664 00:28:21,890 --> 00:28:20,220 the universe just ask for synchronicity 665 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:21,900 to present itself and can manifest 666 00:28:27,620 --> 00:28:23,730 synchronicities you just ask and that's 667 00:28:28,910 --> 00:28:27,630 his argument and so I read on and this 668 00:28:33,260 --> 00:28:28,920 is all very interesting and he and he 669 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:33,270 says I like to make vowels so the guy 670 00:28:37,700 --> 00:28:35,730 who has the UFO experience who writes 671 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:37,710 the book on synchronicities when he 672 00:28:41,030 --> 00:28:38,850 wants to manifest his own 673 00:28:43,580 --> 00:28:41,040 synchronicities he creates owl 674 00:28:45,650 --> 00:28:43,590 synchronicities I literally dropped out 675 00:28:48,140 --> 00:28:45,660 of the chair when he said that so I get 676 00:28:51,260 --> 00:28:48,150 a hold of him and we talk and and now he 677 00:28:52,790 --> 00:28:51,270 is now I'm very cautious to how I mean 678 00:28:55,700 --> 00:28:52,800 so someone has given me permission to 679 00:28:58,549 --> 00:28:55,710 tell their stories so I'm I need to be I 680 00:29:00,500 --> 00:28:58,559 need to honor that and and his UFO 681 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:00,510 experiences are very interesting they're 682 00:29:05,950 --> 00:29:03,090 very subtle they're not you know what 683 00:29:09,530 --> 00:29:05,960 you would see in a late-night you know 684 00:29:11,780 --> 00:29:09,540 exploitative cable TV documentary so 685 00:29:15,020 --> 00:29:11,790 he's had experiences in his youth he 686 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:15,030 started meditating when his nine and has 687 00:29:23,150 --> 00:29:17,690 been actively meditating ever since and 688 00:29:25,430 --> 00:29:23,160 he in his early 20s was and he said it 689 00:29:28,790 --> 00:29:25,440 was he felt like he was in communication 690 00:29:30,590 --> 00:29:28,800 with some higher form of intelligence 691 00:29:32,180 --> 00:29:30,600 presently he feels that's his own 692 00:29:34,669 --> 00:29:32,190 intelligence since he was that he was 693 00:29:37,190 --> 00:29:34,679 interacting with basically interacting 694 00:29:39,110 --> 00:29:37,200 with his own higher self at the time he 695 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:39,120 didn't think that at the time he felt 696 00:29:42,020 --> 00:29:40,650 you know it must be an outside source 697 00:29:45,100 --> 00:29:42,030 and the only thing that made sense was 698 00:29:47,540 --> 00:29:45,110 you know aliens on board a flying saucer 699 00:29:49,430 --> 00:29:47,550 so he would go out at night and and try 700 00:29:51,710 --> 00:29:49,440 to contact these things and little dots 701 00:29:55,370 --> 00:29:51,720 in the sky little eerie lights would 702 00:29:56,450 --> 00:29:55,380 appear and now in his PDF his friends 703 00:29:57,830 --> 00:29:56,460 he'd say okay there's gonna be a little 704 00:29:59,210 --> 00:29:57,840 little dot in the sky it's gonna appear 705 00:30:00,350 --> 00:29:59,220 right over there gonna have a UFO and 706 00:30:06,290 --> 00:30:00,360 then sure enough it would happen he 707 00:30:07,700 --> 00:30:06,300 would frighten his friends and so so 708 00:30:10,340 --> 00:30:07,710 those were his experiences now when I 709 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:10,350 asked into talking with him you know he 710 00:30:13,790 --> 00:30:12,690 was he said listen you like I described 711 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:13,800 my life like oh my god I'm just 712 00:30:17,690 --> 00:30:15,450 immersing myself I'm just like thrown 713 00:30:19,010 --> 00:30:17,700 myself into this whole UFO thing and 714 00:30:20,419 --> 00:30:19,020 it's my own experience and I'm trying to 715 00:30:22,659 --> 00:30:20,429 make sense of it I'm wrestling with it 716 00:30:24,099 --> 00:30:22,669 I'm reaching out to hit anyone and he 717 00:30:26,950 --> 00:30:24,109 said listen you're putting a lot of 718 00:30:29,379 --> 00:30:26,960 intention into that and it and this is 719 00:30:32,129 --> 00:30:29,389 how reality works reality will reflect 720 00:30:34,019 --> 00:30:32,139 that back and you should expect to have 721 00:30:36,970 --> 00:30:34,029 synchronicities you are manifesting 722 00:30:39,039 --> 00:30:36,980 synchronicities and I had to think like 723 00:30:41,830 --> 00:30:39,049 well like did I actually manifest Kirby 724 00:30:44,109 --> 00:30:41,840 surprise and he's the perfect person so 725 00:30:45,249 --> 00:30:44,119 like to bat these out ideas around with 726 00:30:46,629 --> 00:30:45,259 and we actually talked on Halloween 727 00:30:50,590 --> 00:30:46,639 night of all nights which is just 728 00:30:52,450 --> 00:30:50,600 perfect yeah so so yeah so he's a very 729 00:30:55,899 --> 00:30:52,460 thoughtful guy very smart thinker in and 730 00:30:58,389 --> 00:30:55,909 um in a clinician at the same time very 731 00:31:00,279 --> 00:30:58,399 mystical in the way he he frames these 732 00:31:01,989 --> 00:31:00,289 ideas which was a perfect match for the 733 00:31:06,249 --> 00:31:01,999 way I am more comfortable framing these 734 00:31:07,930 --> 00:31:06,259 things so yeah so so the guy who writes 735 00:31:10,629 --> 00:31:07,940 the book about synchronicity you know 736 00:31:15,999 --> 00:31:10,639 gets his own chapter in in my book on 737 00:31:18,999 --> 00:31:16,009 UFOs and owls and and I mean obviously I 738 00:31:24,430 --> 00:31:19,009 can't write him paraphrase of the entire 739 00:31:27,159 --> 00:31:24,440 chapter but but his ideas and his very 740 00:31:29,830 --> 00:31:27,169 thoughtful outlook you know helped me a 741 00:31:33,269 --> 00:31:29,840 lot along my way in this journey Wow 742 00:31:36,340 --> 00:31:33,279 yeah that was that chapter struck me 743 00:31:38,289 --> 00:31:36,350 more than most and really put the 744 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:38,299 synchronicity at the forefront and sort 745 00:31:43,629 --> 00:31:41,210 of delineating between coincidence and 746 00:31:47,049 --> 00:31:43,639 synchronicity excuse me synchronicity 747 00:31:50,499 --> 00:31:47,059 and manifesting that um so yeah very 748 00:31:52,859 --> 00:31:50,509 very interesting Mike I wanna I want to 749 00:31:56,769 --> 00:31:52,869 sort of move into the most I guess 750 00:32:00,999 --> 00:31:56,779 controversial and powerful part of your 751 00:32:03,310 --> 00:32:01,009 book the UFO and the abductee now I I do 752 00:32:05,649 --> 00:32:03,320 want to dive into screen memory a little 753 00:32:11,229 --> 00:32:05,659 bit but before we get there I want to go 754 00:32:12,970 --> 00:32:11,239 into UFOs and owls in general now you 755 00:32:14,799 --> 00:32:12,980 have many people in your book who have 756 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:14,809 experienced this whether it was the UFO 757 00:32:19,869 --> 00:32:16,970 first and then owl or owl and then UFO 758 00:32:21,129 --> 00:32:19,879 could you briefly touch on that they can 759 00:32:24,549 --> 00:32:21,139 be physical 760 00:32:27,430 --> 00:32:24,559 you know tangible reality of the UFO and 761 00:32:29,830 --> 00:32:27,440 the owl oh I wish I could two summers up 762 00:32:32,229 --> 00:32:29,840 succinctly yeah there was someone at a 763 00:32:33,849 --> 00:32:32,239 conference and she kind of said like you 764 00:32:35,830 --> 00:32:33,859 know I always thought I saw your talk I 765 00:32:36,659 --> 00:32:35,840 was called UFOs and eyal's I had no idea 766 00:32:38,430 --> 00:32:36,669 what you were going 767 00:32:40,590 --> 00:32:38,440 didn't make any sense to me she had no 768 00:32:41,789 --> 00:32:40,600 idea what she was getting into and then 769 00:32:43,049 --> 00:32:41,799 afterwards she said oh you did a nice 770 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:43,059 job of summing it up and it's like well 771 00:32:52,950 --> 00:32:48,970 it took me like two hours but so they 772 00:32:56,330 --> 00:32:52,960 there is no easy answer so so what I 773 00:32:58,649 --> 00:32:56,340 have so after my experience in 2006 774 00:33:00,180 --> 00:32:58,659 started looking into this I just got 775 00:33:02,580 --> 00:33:00,190 shameless I would just pick up the phone 776 00:33:04,649 --> 00:33:02,590 and call people and and people had you 777 00:33:06,210 --> 00:33:04,659 know contact experiences I would just 778 00:33:08,639 --> 00:33:06,220 figure out a way to hold him and talk to 779 00:33:11,970 --> 00:33:08,649 him and now one of the questions I asked 780 00:33:13,590 --> 00:33:11,980 everyone like everyone researcher 781 00:33:15,269 --> 00:33:13,600 experience or you know like have you 782 00:33:16,979 --> 00:33:15,279 ever had any odd experiences with owls 783 00:33:21,690 --> 00:33:16,989 that's not a hundred percent but it's 784 00:33:24,060 --> 00:33:21,700 enough that there's a defined palpable 785 00:33:26,039 --> 00:33:24,070 pattern that shows up so I asked the 786 00:33:28,019 --> 00:33:26,049 question have you ever had any odd 787 00:33:29,190 --> 00:33:28,029 experiences with owls they'll say you 788 00:33:30,749 --> 00:33:29,200 know it's funny she'd ask no one's ever 789 00:33:34,019 --> 00:33:30,759 asked that before and I did have this 790 00:33:36,149 --> 00:33:34,029 really strange experience and you know 791 00:33:38,749 --> 00:33:36,159 sometimes it's a subtle ISM there's a 792 00:33:44,369 --> 00:33:38,759 woman named Nadine Lalit and she's a a 793 00:33:46,470 --> 00:33:44,379 an abductee very outspoken and clear 794 00:33:48,419 --> 00:33:46,480 about her experiences a very 795 00:33:50,519 --> 00:33:48,429 level-headed be a great she's a great 796 00:33:53,129 --> 00:33:50,529 spokesman for the whole cause she's yeah 797 00:33:54,180 --> 00:33:53,139 so she said you know that's funny you 798 00:33:56,639 --> 00:33:54,190 should ask you know no one's really 799 00:33:58,710 --> 00:33:56,649 asked me that but there was a time when 800 00:34:00,060 --> 00:33:58,720 I was living in this apartment and she 801 00:34:01,710 --> 00:34:00,070 was you could just tell she was kind of 802 00:34:03,419 --> 00:34:01,720 like well this is odd I was living in 803 00:34:04,889 --> 00:34:03,429 this apartment and it was right at the 804 00:34:06,830 --> 00:34:04,899 time I was having a lot of contact 805 00:34:09,690 --> 00:34:06,840 experiences and there was always an owl 806 00:34:10,710 --> 00:34:09,700 outside the house and outside the window 807 00:34:12,240 --> 00:34:10,720 and I would come home from work and 808 00:34:13,740 --> 00:34:12,250 there'd be an owl I mean a big owl would 809 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:13,750 be right on the branch right by the door 810 00:34:18,030 --> 00:34:16,210 when I came home and I and that shows up 811 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:18,040 you know like oh they all would like you 812 00:34:20,579 --> 00:34:19,450 know I'd get up in the morning they all 813 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:20,589 would be on the branch and I'd come home 814 00:34:23,069 --> 00:34:21,490 from work and they'd all be on the 815 00:34:24,329 --> 00:34:23,079 branch staring at me so that happens in 816 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:24,339 the lives of abductees there's another 817 00:34:32,159 --> 00:34:26,290 guy Ron Johnson who has stories like 818 00:34:33,780 --> 00:34:32,169 that another way would be that one of 819 00:34:35,369 --> 00:34:33,790 the first people that contacted me and 820 00:34:36,720 --> 00:34:35,379 this whole research was this guy Derek 821 00:34:37,799 --> 00:34:36,730 and he said yeah you know I was camping 822 00:34:39,869 --> 00:34:37,809 in the desert and I looked up at this 823 00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:39,879 cactus and there was an owl both me and 824 00:34:42,750 --> 00:34:41,169 my friend we were lying there looking up 825 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:42,760 at the stars and it startled us really 826 00:34:45,809 --> 00:34:44,290 eerie right now looking down at you 827 00:34:47,909 --> 00:34:45,819 you're lying her back in the desert sand 828 00:34:49,169 --> 00:34:47,919 and looking up at the sol and beautiful 829 00:34:50,579 --> 00:34:49,179 stars behind it 830 00:34:52,099 --> 00:34:50,589 you know it's like and I know just we 831 00:34:57,839 --> 00:34:52,109 means it is hearing the owl flies off 832 00:35:01,170 --> 00:34:57,849 moments later a triangle UFO floats past 833 00:35:03,210 --> 00:35:01,180 them very silently and it's hugging the 834 00:35:05,370 --> 00:35:03,220 natural terrain of the landscape in this 835 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:05,380 very eerie way there in this Canyon and 836 00:35:09,420 --> 00:35:07,450 he I met him and he mimicked this this 837 00:35:11,279 --> 00:35:09,430 this flight pattern and it was really 838 00:35:12,900 --> 00:35:11,289 you know so you see he was kind of 839 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:12,910 gritting his teeth as he was telling the 840 00:35:17,849 --> 00:35:15,490 story this was so you know weird 841 00:35:19,410 --> 00:35:17,859 powerful that so owls and UFOs show up 842 00:35:21,269 --> 00:35:19,420 side by side as you said sometimes the 843 00:35:22,650 --> 00:35:21,279 you know the beautiful show first 844 00:35:24,059 --> 00:35:22,660 sometimes the owl show Purse these are 845 00:35:26,010 --> 00:35:24,069 real owls we're talking about when these 846 00:35:27,269 --> 00:35:26,020 aren't the the screen memory aspect 847 00:35:32,789 --> 00:35:27,279 which we can get into in a little bit so 848 00:35:35,549 --> 00:35:32,799 yeah so why I don't know you know like I 849 00:35:37,500 --> 00:35:35,559 spend I I wrestle with him through the 850 00:35:39,150 --> 00:35:37,510 entire book trying to come up with the 851 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:39,160 why I still don't you know that's I 852 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:41,410 think I type of why owls question mark a 853 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:44,170 full sentence you know ten times 854 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:45,970 throughout the book and I never quite 855 00:35:49,230 --> 00:35:47,890 you know I I danced around it and 856 00:35:51,870 --> 00:35:49,240 speculate a little bit on what it might 857 00:35:54,150 --> 00:35:51,880 mean but you know hard to know hard to 858 00:35:56,670 --> 00:35:54,160 know but my sense my very strong sense 859 00:35:58,980 --> 00:35:56,680 it's these are intimately connected in 860 00:36:00,510 --> 00:35:58,990 some way you know as a lot of UFO books 861 00:36:03,329 --> 00:36:00,520 out there you know books have been 862 00:36:04,589 --> 00:36:03,339 around for you know 30 years and you can 863 00:36:06,210 --> 00:36:04,599 go and peel through that you know go 864 00:36:07,710 --> 00:36:06,220 through those pages and you know big 865 00:36:09,359 --> 00:36:07,720 thick book might have a paragraph or two 866 00:36:11,750 --> 00:36:09,369 up on Isles and I made an effort to dig 867 00:36:14,460 --> 00:36:11,760 out and look back at a lot of those and 868 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:14,470 and you know they're they're telling 869 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:15,970 these odd little stories just like I 870 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:20,170 just told and so the the the seeds were 871 00:36:24,059 --> 00:36:22,450 there like I didn't invent this subject 872 00:36:26,309 --> 00:36:24,069 I mean it was already there and I just 873 00:36:30,359 --> 00:36:26,319 you know I just I just dug a little 874 00:36:34,049 --> 00:36:30,369 deeper and put it all in one book but 875 00:36:37,980 --> 00:36:34,059 yeah again I don't know the reason I can 876 00:36:39,260 --> 00:36:37,990 say with great conviction that there is 877 00:36:43,859 --> 00:36:39,270 a connection I don't know what it is 878 00:36:47,130 --> 00:36:43,869 yeah I mean and you make very you know 879 00:36:49,799 --> 00:36:47,140 startling connections between you know a 880 00:36:52,829 --> 00:36:49,809 silent bird in flight in a silent object 881 00:36:56,039 --> 00:36:52,839 in flight whether its triangular saucer 882 00:36:58,109 --> 00:36:56,049 shaped so that was very interesting and 883 00:37:00,150 --> 00:36:58,119 I know what else happens a lot yes I'll 884 00:37:01,559 --> 00:37:00,160 do it up I do before the talk is up yeah 885 00:37:03,270 --> 00:37:01,569 is I mean they're both three letters I 886 00:37:05,550 --> 00:37:03,280 cannot tell you how many times I 887 00:37:07,500 --> 00:37:05,560 type them wrong I wanted to type 888 00:37:09,060 --> 00:37:07,510 owl and we type UFO writer changeable 889 00:37:10,380 --> 00:37:09,070 yeah there I mean it's like it was just 890 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:10,390 interchangeable in a way that they 891 00:37:14,130 --> 00:37:12,130 became they blurred together you know 892 00:37:15,410 --> 00:37:14,140 that's very interesting I never even 893 00:37:17,820 --> 00:37:15,420 thought about that one 894 00:37:20,340 --> 00:37:17,830 well yeah you say you know there 895 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:20,350 throughout UFO literature there there's 896 00:37:25,890 --> 00:37:22,330 always that one or two paragraph and you 897 00:37:28,950 --> 00:37:25,900 sort of brush past it but I know that 898 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:28,960 one individual in particular was the 899 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:31,290 first to comment on your blog about that 900 00:37:36,900 --> 00:37:33,610 would you mind telling us a little bit 901 00:37:39,390 --> 00:37:36,910 about that one of the preeminent writers 902 00:37:42,180 --> 00:37:39,400 on the US turn about Willy abductee yeah 903 00:37:43,830 --> 00:37:42,190 literature Whitley Strieber yes yeah 904 00:37:47,370 --> 00:37:43,840 okay so Whitley this is interesting so I 905 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:47,380 just spoke with Whitley and he did it he 906 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:49,090 died was interviewed on his show and and 907 00:37:52,260 --> 00:37:50,770 oh my god he was so complimentary I was 908 00:37:53,730 --> 00:37:52,270 a little bit like whatever someone said 909 00:37:59,760 --> 00:37:53,740 he could hear me blushing over though 910 00:38:02,240 --> 00:37:59,770 yeah but um so his he had an IV so if 911 00:38:04,830 --> 00:38:02,250 you get the book the most important 912 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:04,840 abduction book in the history of the 913 00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:08,170 subject is communion hands down yes you 914 00:38:13,980 --> 00:38:09,850 know some people and what are this all 915 00:38:15,660 --> 00:38:13,990 kinds of but every is people some people 916 00:38:19,350 --> 00:38:15,670 don't buy it and some people are like 917 00:38:20,820 --> 00:38:19,360 anyway so I I trust the guy he said that 918 00:38:22,170 --> 00:38:20,830 if anything is his problem if his 919 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:22,180 anything's working against Whitley 920 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:24,610 Street buried his own skill at writing 921 00:38:28,050 --> 00:38:26,890 he writes so beautifully that you're 922 00:38:29,670 --> 00:38:28,060 holding this book in your hands like 923 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:29,680 this is fiction this is real it's like 924 00:38:35,940 --> 00:38:32,410 it's so I mean he's like he's a he's a 925 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:35,950 you know on a scale of he's an a-plus 926 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:38,170 writer in a field that doesn't have that 927 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:43,810 very office so very early on the book he 928 00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:46,450 has he describes what we would now just 929 00:38:50,700 --> 00:38:48,730 call a nighttime bedroom visitation in 930 00:38:53,130 --> 00:38:50,710 abductions maybe he doesn't like he 931 00:38:54,540 --> 00:38:53,140 doesn't use that word um I do I just use 932 00:38:56,850 --> 00:38:54,550 it just because that's the vocabulary 933 00:38:58,470 --> 00:38:56,860 word we're saddled with you know I don't 934 00:39:01,200 --> 00:38:58,480 like it but that's the one that gets 935 00:39:04,620 --> 00:39:01,210 used a lot of them so I'll just so he 936 00:39:11,700 --> 00:39:04,630 describes a bedroom visitation on crisp 937 00:39:13,830 --> 00:39:11,710 the day after Christmas in 1985 the next 938 00:39:15,270 --> 00:39:13,840 morning he he actually felt there was an 939 00:39:16,250 --> 00:39:15,280 owl flying around the house so there was 940 00:39:17,630 --> 00:39:16,260 an owl in the house we 941 00:39:19,190 --> 00:39:17,640 seemed impossible his wife is like oh 942 00:39:20,300 --> 00:39:19,200 there wasn't any owl in the house last 943 00:39:22,820 --> 00:39:20,310 night all the windows are closed it's 944 00:39:24,020 --> 00:39:22,830 wintertime and then he said oh so the 945 00:39:25,250 --> 00:39:24,030 only thing it could be was the owl out 946 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:25,260 the window and it would have come 947 00:39:30,140 --> 00:39:27,090 through that window I know it and they 948 00:39:33,020 --> 00:39:30,150 went over to the window and he looked 949 00:39:36,350 --> 00:39:33,030 and there was fresh snow and there was 950 00:39:38,030 --> 00:39:36,360 no footprints on the windowsill or on 951 00:39:39,500 --> 00:39:38,040 the you know so the snow had fallen a 952 00:39:40,730 --> 00:39:39,510 few days before so if there was an owl 953 00:39:43,460 --> 00:39:40,740 on that windowsill there should be some 954 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:43,470 evidence and there wasn't and and when 955 00:39:49,700 --> 00:39:46,890 he saw that he knew something for our 956 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:49,710 stranger had occurred then just a 957 00:39:57,770 --> 00:39:55,530 physical owl so somehow this memory of 958 00:40:03,290 --> 00:39:57,780 an owl was implanted in his mind and 959 00:40:05,630 --> 00:40:03,300 that that in the research circles and in 960 00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:05,640 is referred to as the screen memory 961 00:40:10,430 --> 00:40:08,130 which is bandied about in this very 962 00:40:13,460 --> 00:40:10,440 common place and what what will happen 963 00:40:15,230 --> 00:40:13,470 is people will tell stories of driving 964 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:15,240 down a lonely road at night and they 965 00:40:18,590 --> 00:40:16,650 turn a corner and there's a great big 966 00:40:20,930 --> 00:40:18,600 tall four foot tall owl standing in the 967 00:40:22,670 --> 00:40:20,940 middle of the road and they'll pull the 968 00:40:25,010 --> 00:40:22,680 car right up to it and I'll well be 969 00:40:27,890 --> 00:40:25,020 above the hood of the car staring into a 970 00:40:29,870 --> 00:40:27,900 windshield now there's no such thing as 971 00:40:31,490 --> 00:40:29,880 a four-foot tall owl they don't get that 972 00:40:33,950 --> 00:40:31,500 tall there's no there's no owl in the 973 00:40:35,900 --> 00:40:33,960 world that could stand on the road no 974 00:40:41,030 --> 00:40:35,910 matter how small your car is and then 975 00:40:43,250 --> 00:40:41,040 stare over the hood at you so they're 976 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:43,260 seeing something else that the 977 00:40:48,410 --> 00:40:45,210 implication being that they're seeing a 978 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:48,420 gray alien that has somehow used a 979 00:40:56,900 --> 00:40:52,850 psychic projection some sort of hypnotic 980 00:41:00,310 --> 00:40:56,910 mask and then they they they the the 981 00:41:02,720 --> 00:41:00,320 observer quite probably the abductee 982 00:41:06,530 --> 00:41:02,730 doesn't see a gray alien with big black 983 00:41:10,250 --> 00:41:06,540 eyes they see a owl with big penetrating 984 00:41:12,050 --> 00:41:10,260 eyes and that shows up in the literature 985 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:12,060 over and over again I I did a chapter on 986 00:41:16,190 --> 00:41:13,530 screen memories and I actually tried to 987 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:16,200 I did it early in the book and I wanted 988 00:41:20,030 --> 00:41:18,450 to get past it because you know that 989 00:41:22,930 --> 00:41:20,040 once you wrap your mind around what the 990 00:41:26,210 --> 00:41:22,940 screen memory might be and how it's used 991 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:26,220 you know what I was more interested in 992 00:41:29,870 --> 00:41:29,130 was was not that but the stranger aspect 993 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:29,880 of the real 994 00:41:36,170 --> 00:41:32,330 like why are these real owls showing up 995 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:36,180 so no and you said Mike I mean you know 996 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:38,970 being that it may be a quote-unquote 997 00:41:44,660 --> 00:41:41,970 fallible screen memory that the biggest 998 00:41:45,130 --> 00:41:44,670 owls often get to what two three feet 999 00:41:48,410 --> 00:41:45,140 maybe 1000 00:41:50,330 --> 00:41:48,420 well the string reality straight Google 1001 00:41:51,140 --> 00:41:50,340 research is 33 inches the biggest all 1002 00:41:54,230 --> 00:41:51,150 I've ever found 1003 00:41:58,070 --> 00:41:54,240 okay written and in you know in you know 1004 00:41:59,360 --> 00:41:58,080 a size 33 inches that's that's in flight 1005 00:42:03,830 --> 00:41:59,370 nose to tail 1006 00:42:05,210 --> 00:42:03,840 that's not standing so would be a little 1007 00:42:06,830 --> 00:42:05,220 shorter than that so I mean if you're 1008 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:06,840 seeing I mean an owl if you see an owl a 1009 00:42:12,050 --> 00:42:10,290 little over 1 foot tall in North America 1010 00:42:13,310 --> 00:42:12,060 you're seeing a big owl there's only one 1011 00:42:14,330 --> 00:42:13,320 out of this that can get that big and 1012 00:42:15,980 --> 00:42:14,340 that you have to be in pretty far north 1013 00:42:19,970 --> 00:42:15,990 to see an owl that big and that would be 1014 00:42:22,940 --> 00:42:19,980 the great gray owl and that you know I 1015 00:42:25,910 --> 00:42:22,950 mean it's not gonna be that big no way 1016 00:42:27,830 --> 00:42:25,920 could it be four foot tall you know I 1017 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:27,840 mean maybe if off in the distance you 1018 00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:30,570 might you know how do you accurately 1019 00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:32,370 perceive what it might be so you know 1020 00:42:42,500 --> 00:42:34,650 there's a two and a half foot tall maybe 1021 00:42:43,610 --> 00:42:42,510 but yet very very difficult to to uh you 1022 00:42:45,890 --> 00:42:43,620 know what's interesting is that people 1023 00:42:47,150 --> 00:42:45,900 will see these tall owls these four foot 1024 00:42:48,950 --> 00:42:47,160 tall Isles and then just dismiss them 1025 00:42:50,930 --> 00:42:48,960 like oh yeah I saw four foot tall and 1026 00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:50,940 they'll say it as casually as that and 1027 00:42:54,500 --> 00:42:52,170 then like they'll recognize there's 1028 00:42:56,330 --> 00:42:54,510 something odd in there 1029 00:42:58,520 --> 00:42:56,340 I made a cardboard owl that was four 1030 00:42:59,450 --> 00:42:58,530 foot tall let me tell you I fixed this 1031 00:43:00,800 --> 00:42:59,460 thing yeah oh that's right you've 1032 00:43:01,670 --> 00:43:00,810 actually held it yeah yes did right next 1033 00:43:04,490 --> 00:43:01,680 to it yeah you stand next to this thing 1034 00:43:07,700 --> 00:43:04,500 and there's no way that that you could 1035 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:07,710 mistake you there's no way that could be 1036 00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:09,690 real right so how's our you know I mean 1037 00:43:15,350 --> 00:43:13,770 how's our I mean they're Hawks are 1038 00:43:18,010 --> 00:43:15,360 bigger than owls and things like that so 1039 00:43:21,170 --> 00:43:18,020 eagles are bigger than us and there's so 1040 00:43:23,990 --> 00:43:21,180 yeah I mean sort of bringing it back 1041 00:43:28,550 --> 00:43:24,000 around your your blog hit an experience 1042 00:43:32,930 --> 00:43:28,560 duck blogspot you wrote about the owl in 1043 00:43:35,570 --> 00:43:32,940 the UFO abductees and out of nowhere mr. 1044 00:43:38,180 --> 00:43:35,580 streamer was the first to comment on the 1045 00:43:40,220 --> 00:43:38,190 blog I mean that's pretty you know this 1046 00:43:42,110 --> 00:43:40,230 is it's very interesting yeah so the 1047 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:42,120 very first day of the blog's incarnation 1048 00:43:47,060 --> 00:43:43,770 I put three stories up 1049 00:43:48,410 --> 00:43:47,070 one of the stories was the was title 1050 00:43:50,030 --> 00:43:48,420 owls at sunset he need to scroll back 1051 00:43:51,890 --> 00:43:50,040 right to the very beginning to the blog 1052 00:43:53,839 --> 00:43:51,900 and there's the very first day which is 1053 00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:53,849 March good god it's got to be wrong 1054 00:43:57,109 --> 00:43:55,530 right around the room decorator on I 1055 00:43:59,540 --> 00:43:57,119 think it's March 5th or some accents 1056 00:44:02,990 --> 00:43:59,550 wide around here so it was it's seven 1057 00:44:07,010 --> 00:44:03,000 years now it's 2006 that was 2009 or 1058 00:44:13,359 --> 00:44:07,020 2016 and now it's 2009 yeah Wow seven 1059 00:44:18,620 --> 00:44:13,369 years of the blog's incarnation yeah so 1060 00:44:19,849 --> 00:44:18,630 yeah so the very first day Whitley 1061 00:44:21,700 --> 00:44:19,859 Strieber commented I found out 1062 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:21,710 afterwards that was Mac Tony's 1063 00:44:28,030 --> 00:44:24,570 researcher out of st. Louis a friend of 1064 00:44:30,380 --> 00:44:28,040 mine who was on Twitter at the time and 1065 00:44:32,599 --> 00:44:30,390 somehow he had gotten on the shared 1066 00:44:35,450 --> 00:44:32,609 Twitter feed with Whitley and then and 1067 00:44:36,890 --> 00:44:35,460 then he had commented that oh there's 1068 00:44:39,109 --> 00:44:36,900 this cool a set of articles and so 1069 00:44:41,540 --> 00:44:39,119 Whitley read the Owls at sunset thing 1070 00:44:45,740 --> 00:44:41,550 and and commented on on the very first 1071 00:44:47,599 --> 00:44:45,750 day which is bizarre right I mean you 1072 00:44:50,270 --> 00:44:47,609 know you start a blog and then like it's 1073 00:44:55,609 --> 00:44:50,280 the very very first day that's you know 1074 00:44:57,589 --> 00:44:55,619 so I remember in his comment was sort of 1075 00:45:01,160 --> 00:44:57,599 it was actually poetic and cryptic and I 1076 00:45:02,990 --> 00:45:01,170 actually you know he and I've I've went 1077 00:45:04,220 --> 00:45:03,000 he had a chatroom thing that he used to 1078 00:45:07,010 --> 00:45:04,230 do on Wednesday nights on this 1079 00:45:09,050 --> 00:45:07,020 subscriber site and and I would go in 1080 00:45:12,170 --> 00:45:09,060 the chatroom and he I think is capable 1081 00:45:17,450 --> 00:45:12,180 of just zipping off like a three 1082 00:45:19,849 --> 00:45:17,460 sentence little reply that is so heavy 1083 00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:19,859 and ladened with deep meaning and I 1084 00:45:24,260 --> 00:45:22,530 think he just does that I don't think he 1085 00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:24,270 can help it you know yes I think he's 1086 00:45:26,599 --> 00:45:25,530 when he's in the toothpaste aisle trying 1087 00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:26,609 to pick out you know like which 1088 00:45:31,339 --> 00:45:28,290 toothpaste to get he's probably you know 1089 00:45:33,410 --> 00:45:31,349 it's it's probably equally as laden with 1090 00:45:34,910 --> 00:45:33,420 with deep meaning and and you know when 1091 00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:34,920 he has the conversation with the you 1092 00:45:37,940 --> 00:45:36,210 know the checkout girl about you know 1093 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:37,950 like you know does he want paper or 1094 00:45:44,089 --> 00:45:40,170 plastic you know he's probably equally 1095 00:45:46,550 --> 00:45:44,099 as powerful as a communicator but um 1096 00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:46,560 yeah so so he made a comment about you 1097 00:45:50,990 --> 00:45:48,690 know God and owls coming in threes and 1098 00:45:52,430 --> 00:45:51,000 and a deeper meaning and speak surrender 1099 00:45:54,079 --> 00:45:52,440 to God and it comes across as very 1100 00:45:55,439 --> 00:45:54,089 poetic and I included that in the book 1101 00:45:59,109 --> 00:45:55,449 too yeah 1102 00:46:03,249 --> 00:45:59,119 interesting yeah I mean sort of tying it 1103 00:46:06,189 --> 00:46:03,259 back to just the UFO experience in 1104 00:46:09,249 --> 00:46:06,199 specific like you refer to Jill Montaldo 1105 00:46:11,890 --> 00:46:09,259 UFO researcher who claims that UFO 1106 00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:11,900 sightings can often be a trigger to 1107 00:46:14,349 --> 00:46:13,729 other events having happened to a 1108 00:46:17,140 --> 00:46:14,359 witness 1109 00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:17,150 now do you necessarily agree with this 1110 00:46:22,419 --> 00:46:19,130 if so what do you what do you think that 1111 00:46:27,009 --> 00:46:22,429 means you know what is is one event a 1112 00:46:29,049 --> 00:46:27,019 trigger to past events I guess well you 1113 00:46:31,149 --> 00:46:29,059 know I mean like so the way Joe Montero 1114 00:46:35,489 --> 00:46:31,159 argues this is that you know the the the 1115 00:46:39,189 --> 00:46:35,499 the the owl is there is a marker okay 1116 00:46:45,759 --> 00:46:39,199 right so so the owl is marking the 1117 00:46:47,079 --> 00:46:45,769 occasion and so if you have a an event 1118 00:46:49,390 --> 00:46:47,089 right you're driving down the road at 1119 00:46:51,370 --> 00:46:49,400 night and then suddenly you know 1120 00:46:57,069 --> 00:46:51,380 something weird happens we see a great 1121 00:46:59,589 --> 00:46:57,079 big owl and then you know the you know 1122 00:47:00,640 --> 00:46:59,599 later you might use that owl it's like 1123 00:47:02,199 --> 00:47:00,650 you know there was that night I saw the 1124 00:47:05,469 --> 00:47:02,209 owl there was something unusual about 1125 00:47:07,539 --> 00:47:05,479 that night you may that may be the 1126 00:47:13,539 --> 00:47:07,549 starting point for your own self 1127 00:47:15,399 --> 00:47:13,549 examination now so he says that these he 1128 00:47:19,359 --> 00:47:15,409 basically he basically argues that that 1129 00:47:22,829 --> 00:47:19,369 like he says et doesn't need to make 1130 00:47:28,029 --> 00:47:22,839 himself known right he can do everything 1131 00:47:29,769 --> 00:47:28,039 using complete stealth they the flying 1132 00:47:31,299 --> 00:47:29,779 saucers can be completely cloaked and no 1133 00:47:34,059 --> 00:47:31,309 one ever needs to see him the the 1134 00:47:35,890 --> 00:47:34,069 techniques of mind control and erasing 1135 00:47:37,870 --> 00:47:35,900 someone's memory can be so perfect and 1136 00:47:43,299 --> 00:47:37,880 so streamlined and so complete that no 1137 00:47:45,489 --> 00:47:43,309 one ever needs to see the the aliens so 1138 00:47:47,019 --> 00:47:45,499 if they're being seen it is because they 1139 00:47:48,309 --> 00:47:47,029 want to be seen now I don't know if 1140 00:47:53,199 --> 00:47:48,319 that's necessarily true or not but 1141 00:47:55,989 --> 00:47:53,209 that's his argument so so his senses if 1142 00:47:57,339 --> 00:47:55,999 they if we're remembering an owl people 1143 00:47:58,899 --> 00:47:57,349 are seeing an island remembering you 1144 00:48:01,359 --> 00:47:58,909 know it is happening for a reason they 1145 00:48:07,230 --> 00:48:01,369 want that memory to be in place for some 1146 00:48:10,410 --> 00:48:07,240 reason he senses is to to trigger later 1147 00:48:12,780 --> 00:48:10,420 form of examination self-examination or 1148 00:48:15,799 --> 00:48:12,790 two as a marker of like the point when 1149 00:48:18,270 --> 00:48:15,809 when an event may have occurred 1150 00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:18,280 interesting you know would this would 1151 00:48:22,670 --> 00:48:20,770 this connect to what you consider the 1152 00:48:28,319 --> 00:48:22,680 maybe people 1153 00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:28,329 sort of a so um you know you talk to 1154 00:48:31,740 --> 00:48:30,250 these folks you know you're like oh god 1155 00:48:33,089 --> 00:48:31,750 so what happened well I was all you know 1156 00:48:35,309 --> 00:48:33,099 it's like you know camping in the desert 1157 00:48:37,890 --> 00:48:35,319 I saw this this owl and then I saw this 1158 00:48:39,030 --> 00:48:37,900 UFO and then the UFO flew over like it's 1159 00:48:40,290 --> 00:48:39,040 like okay well that's interesting and 1160 00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:40,300 then you kind of listen to their story 1161 00:48:42,420 --> 00:48:41,170 it's like what do you think you've ever 1162 00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:42,430 had do you think you've ever been 1163 00:48:46,589 --> 00:48:44,650 abducted and I'll say it I'll ask it 1164 00:48:48,270 --> 00:48:46,599 straight out and they'll say oh no nope 1165 00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:48,280 never been abducted oh not me never 1166 00:48:51,299 --> 00:48:50,050 happened then you'll talk to him for a 1167 00:48:53,069 --> 00:48:51,309 little while and they'll have all other 1168 00:48:57,390 --> 00:48:53,079 odd stories they'll say you know I had a 1169 00:49:00,960 --> 00:48:57,400 spiritual awakening or they'll say you 1170 00:49:04,589 --> 00:49:00,970 know I I had these vivid dreams that 1171 00:49:07,740 --> 00:49:04,599 played out like contact events now none 1172 00:49:10,859 --> 00:49:07,750 of that is proof right so I can't like 1173 00:49:13,530 --> 00:49:10,869 so my sense is that there's a there's a 1174 00:49:17,730 --> 00:49:13,540 there's a lesser tear on the ladder one 1175 00:49:20,250 --> 00:49:17,740 rung down from abductee people are still 1176 00:49:23,250 --> 00:49:20,260 influenced seemingly influenced by some 1177 00:49:26,609 --> 00:49:23,260 outside force but they don't have that 1178 00:49:28,650 --> 00:49:26,619 pop culture experience of being taken 1179 00:49:30,750 --> 00:49:28,660 onboard a flying saucer and put on the 1180 00:49:33,299 --> 00:49:30,760 table you know they that that may never 1181 00:49:34,829 --> 00:49:33,309 have happened but still these people are 1182 00:49:35,910 --> 00:49:34,839 out there they're playing a role you 1183 00:49:37,020 --> 00:49:35,920 know you talk to these people deeper and 1184 00:49:39,150 --> 00:49:37,030 they're like what do you do only coma 1185 00:49:40,500 --> 00:49:39,160 Reiki therapists or you know they do or 1186 00:49:44,460 --> 00:49:40,510 like oh I'm an artist you know they they 1187 00:49:46,020 --> 00:49:44,470 have these you know there's these things 1188 00:49:47,490 --> 00:49:46,030 that seem to show up in their research 1189 00:49:49,289 --> 00:49:47,500 and for some reason either maybe it's 1190 00:49:51,630 --> 00:49:49,299 just me that I'm like drawing these 1191 00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:51,640 people in but the Reiki therapy thing is 1192 00:49:54,809 --> 00:49:53,290 out of control I mean it feels like you 1193 00:49:56,220 --> 00:49:54,819 know half the people I talked to a Reiki 1194 00:50:00,690 --> 00:49:56,230 therapist who have had these experiences 1195 00:50:03,809 --> 00:50:00,700 so so that maybe people are the like 1196 00:50:05,789 --> 00:50:03,819 like like if someone doesn't say they're 1197 00:50:07,980 --> 00:50:05,799 if someone said like if they don't say 1198 00:50:09,720 --> 00:50:07,990 they're a UFO abductees a my job to call 1199 00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:09,730 them that isn't like that's up to them 1200 00:50:18,180 --> 00:50:14,410 and I might suspect as much and I would 1201 00:50:19,740 --> 00:50:18,190 even argue that some percentage perhaps 1202 00:50:20,700 --> 00:50:19,750 yeah perhaps a high percentage of the 1203 00:50:22,430 --> 00:50:20,710 people in the book that I 1204 00:50:24,720 --> 00:50:22,440 all maybe people are actually 1205 00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:24,730 experiencers abductees that simply don't 1206 00:50:30,599 --> 00:50:27,210 remember their contact experience but 1207 00:50:33,060 --> 00:50:30,609 without without doing the proper 1208 00:50:34,829 --> 00:50:33,070 research and without you know I mean now 1209 00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:34,839 with just how would i how would you 1210 00:50:38,910 --> 00:50:37,210 prove that you can't you know so so I'm 1211 00:50:43,470 --> 00:50:38,920 left with this sense that there's a 1212 00:50:48,690 --> 00:50:43,480 there's a there's a there's a lesser 1213 00:50:52,410 --> 00:50:48,700 rung in the ladder but still these 1214 00:50:56,430 --> 00:50:52,420 people are are they've experienced 1215 00:50:59,940 --> 00:50:56,440 something no I knew you personally 1216 00:51:01,770 --> 00:50:59,950 haven't chosen to take the hypnotic 1217 00:51:03,660 --> 00:51:01,780 regression approach oh oh I have I've 1218 00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:03,670 tried to defeat you have okay oh yeah 1219 00:51:07,230 --> 00:51:05,290 yeah three times I've tried it on the 1220 00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:07,240 front for the contact experience stuff 1221 00:51:12,329 --> 00:51:10,210 in and each time um unsuccessful once 1222 00:51:16,260 --> 00:51:12,339 with Leo sprinkle once with Barbara lamb 1223 00:51:20,670 --> 00:51:16,270 and once with Budd Hopkins so Wow now do 1224 00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:20,680 you see this as a viable option for many 1225 00:51:28,620 --> 00:51:23,050 experiencers to you do you think it is 1226 00:51:31,790 --> 00:51:28,630 of value and it actually works to you 1227 00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:31,800 know bring these experiences forward I 1228 00:51:37,740 --> 00:51:35,170 guess what I'm asking is a healthy way 1229 00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:37,750 of dealing with these experiences you 1230 00:51:42,270 --> 00:51:39,490 know my sense is you should buy exhaust 1231 00:51:45,420 --> 00:51:42,280 other avenues first okay before jumping 1232 00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:45,430 on the hypnotherapist couch you know I 1233 00:51:49,980 --> 00:51:48,130 also like I I talk to people all the 1234 00:51:55,500 --> 00:51:49,990 time I talk to people all the time 1235 00:51:56,970 --> 00:51:55,510 and and I it is like one percent of the 1236 00:51:59,430 --> 00:51:56,980 people I talk to have actually been 1237 00:52:05,030 --> 00:51:59,440 through hypnotic regression for this 1238 00:52:09,780 --> 00:52:08,400 you know that's that's contrary to what 1239 00:52:11,220 --> 00:52:09,790 the popular culture is I think that 1240 00:52:12,720 --> 00:52:11,230 everyone you know though the only reason 1241 00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:12,730 you can ever you know there's people who 1242 00:52:17,190 --> 00:52:14,530 would argue with Jeff Richmond and and 1243 00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:17,200 Jeremy vanie would argue that it's the 1244 00:52:24,300 --> 00:52:19,810 you know the the hypnotherapists who've 1245 00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:24,310 who've polluted the pool and and you 1246 00:52:27,540 --> 00:52:26,050 know given all these stories and my 1247 00:52:30,240 --> 00:52:27,550 sense is you know like we don't need I 1248 00:52:32,370 --> 00:52:30,250 mean like there's plenty of evidence out 1249 00:52:33,970 --> 00:52:32,380 there people remembered all kinds of 1250 00:52:36,460 --> 00:52:33,980 things without hypnosis 1251 00:52:38,890 --> 00:52:36,470 right Oh Kathleen Martin's done a lot of 1252 00:52:40,420 --> 00:52:38,900 research into that you know yeah people 1253 00:52:41,380 --> 00:52:40,430 seoulites even but Hopkins kind of 1254 00:52:42,849 --> 00:52:41,390 rolled his eyes and said you know a lot 1255 00:52:44,050 --> 00:52:42,859 of people show up my office you know 1256 00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:44,060 they don't need hypnosis think of all 1257 00:52:49,930 --> 00:52:45,650 kinds of conscious memory we don't know 1258 00:52:51,700 --> 00:52:49,940 anything yeah so so um you know it's a 1259 00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:51,710 tool I guess it can be used prudently 1260 00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:52,010 and 1261 00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:54,170 you know can be used irresponsibly you 1262 00:52:58,720 --> 00:52:57,410 know that's that's a subjective argument 1263 00:53:00,130 --> 00:52:58,730 you know like which is you know how 1264 00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:00,140 we're on the continuum you know like one 1265 00:53:03,940 --> 00:53:01,850 end is a responsible hypnotherapy and 1266 00:53:05,620 --> 00:53:03,950 one end is is irresponsible hypnotherapy 1267 00:53:08,020 --> 00:53:05,630 I mean we're in the line does it fall 1268 00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:08,030 you know I mean you know every case is 1269 00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:09,410 different every individual is different 1270 00:53:12,700 --> 00:53:11,330 every you know person trying to make a 1271 00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:12,710 judgment call is gonna be different so 1272 00:53:16,900 --> 00:53:14,930 sure I bet you there's been some sloppy 1273 00:53:17,830 --> 00:53:16,910 things taking place I bet you know you 1274 00:53:19,150 --> 00:53:17,840 know I've talked a lot of people have 1275 00:53:20,740 --> 00:53:19,160 gone through hypnotherapy and then you 1276 00:53:22,750 --> 00:53:20,750 ask him like well how was it you know I 1277 00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:22,760 can they say I didn't believe it didn't 1278 00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:23,090 buy it 1279 00:53:27,730 --> 00:53:25,850 I've run across that many times myself 1280 00:53:29,140 --> 00:53:27,740 yeah and that doesn't make it into the 1281 00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:29,150 literature you know like that seems like 1282 00:53:32,770 --> 00:53:31,250 you know there's a solution that you 1283 00:53:34,060 --> 00:53:32,780 have this hypnotherapy thing and you all 1284 00:53:35,830 --> 00:53:34,070 of a sudden you're like this is like 1285 00:53:36,910 --> 00:53:35,840 little you know the magic wand gets it 1286 00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:36,920 out of your head and there's this like 1287 00:53:40,510 --> 00:53:39,050 Disney ping noise and all of a sudden 1288 00:53:42,250 --> 00:53:40,520 you have all your memories back and in a 1289 00:53:46,540 --> 00:53:42,260 date ain't don't work that way exactly 1290 00:53:47,890 --> 00:53:46,550 so um yeah it's true I would do it and 1291 00:53:49,390 --> 00:53:47,900 in fact I'm there's gonna be a day when 1292 00:53:51,190 --> 00:53:49,400 I'll probably give you know give in to 1293 00:53:53,380 --> 00:53:51,200 it now quite honestly like the some of 1294 00:53:54,700 --> 00:53:53,390 the events that I had were really scary 1295 00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:54,710 since then I've had a couple other 1296 00:53:58,300 --> 00:53:56,810 events that weren't too scary it don't 1297 00:53:59,920 --> 00:53:58,310 have a big they didn't like it's a 1298 00:54:01,540 --> 00:53:59,930 little easier to like like I'll just 1299 00:54:02,740 --> 00:54:01,550 investigate that that one because it's 1300 00:54:03,970 --> 00:54:02,750 not as scary that one over there that 1301 00:54:05,859 --> 00:54:03,980 happened at night it was super spooky 1302 00:54:07,810 --> 00:54:05,869 and like yeah he'd freak me out and I 1303 00:54:10,090 --> 00:54:07,820 saw it haunted me for years and I had 1304 00:54:11,740 --> 00:54:10,100 this other thing back in March of 2013 1305 00:54:13,240 --> 00:54:11,750 and it's like you know that was kind of 1306 00:54:16,330 --> 00:54:13,250 nice it's kind of lies in you know don't 1307 00:54:19,150 --> 00:54:16,340 have any there's no associated baggage 1308 00:54:21,490 --> 00:54:19,160 to that one you know nobody so yeah you 1309 00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:21,500 know it's no it's hard i I spoke to a 1310 00:54:26,500 --> 00:54:24,770 woman week ago who had an initial 1311 00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:26,510 experience and she thought it was the 1312 00:54:31,599 --> 00:54:29,210 only one and you know she came to me a 1313 00:54:34,570 --> 00:54:31,609 week later and she's struggling to make 1314 00:54:39,460 --> 00:54:34,580 a decision with her husband you know I I 1315 00:54:41,109 --> 00:54:39,470 wanna I want to go under I want to sort 1316 00:54:43,270 --> 00:54:41,119 of find out what happened she has 1317 00:54:44,950 --> 00:54:43,280 glimpses of a second experience but 1318 00:54:45,550 --> 00:54:44,960 she's terrified to find out what it 1319 00:54:47,890 --> 00:54:45,560 might be 1320 00:54:50,829 --> 00:54:47,900 so again when these things become 1321 00:54:52,870 --> 00:54:50,839 traumatic every hypnotherapist I've 1322 00:54:55,539 --> 00:54:52,880 spoken to who deal with abductees or 1323 00:54:57,519 --> 00:54:55,549 experiencers they all say the same thing 1324 00:55:00,819 --> 00:54:57,529 look if you're having a traumatic 1325 00:55:03,099 --> 00:55:00,829 experience seek actual therapy first or 1326 00:55:05,260 --> 00:55:03,109 find what works for you if not we're 1327 00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:05,270 here to talk to you so like you said 1328 00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:07,130 there's not this magic wand that brings 1329 00:55:12,460 --> 00:55:10,210 everything to the surface every 1330 00:55:14,799 --> 00:55:12,470 hypnotherapist I've spoken to is very 1331 00:55:18,549 --> 00:55:14,809 responsible and they look out for the 1332 00:55:20,579 --> 00:55:18,559 person first and foremost so yeah as 1333 00:55:22,720 --> 00:55:20,589 long as you're smart about it I think 1334 00:55:25,269 --> 00:55:22,730 yeah I think it's definitely a viable 1335 00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:25,279 option sure yeah I mean I went through 1336 00:55:29,130 --> 00:55:27,170 hypnotherapy session where it was a past 1337 00:55:31,660 --> 00:55:29,140 life regression it was very therapeutic 1338 00:55:33,220 --> 00:55:31,670 very therapeutic for some like emotional 1339 00:55:35,769 --> 00:55:33,230 issues that you know may or may not be 1340 00:55:38,319 --> 00:55:35,779 tied into this this other stuff but you 1341 00:55:41,500 --> 00:55:38,329 know it was just this this story emerged 1342 00:55:43,059 --> 00:55:41,510 of a life that I lived in the 1920s or 1343 00:55:46,269 --> 00:55:43,069 the 19-teens was hard to pinpoint 1344 00:55:48,519 --> 00:55:46,279 exactly and you know and it was I died 1345 00:55:49,750 --> 00:55:48,529 under crappy circumstances and you know 1346 00:55:52,420 --> 00:55:49,760 that may be the baggage from that 1347 00:55:55,210 --> 00:55:52,430 previous life is like kind of lingering 1348 00:55:56,500 --> 00:55:55,220 and causing problems in this life that 1349 00:55:58,569 --> 00:55:56,510 said you know like I don't know if it 1350 00:56:00,309 --> 00:55:58,579 actually happened I do know that it was 1351 00:56:04,260 --> 00:56:00,319 very therapeutic to go through the 1352 00:56:06,549 --> 00:56:04,270 process of examining this this set of 1353 00:56:07,990 --> 00:56:06,559 hypnotically induced memories they may 1354 00:56:09,910 --> 00:56:08,000 are their real memories from a previous 1355 00:56:13,359 --> 00:56:09,920 life I have no idea I what I can say is 1356 00:56:17,049 --> 00:56:13,369 that that the that the the result of the 1357 00:56:19,630 --> 00:56:17,059 procedure was powerfully therapeutic now 1358 00:56:21,430 --> 00:56:19,640 while lying there on the this is you 1359 00:56:24,339 --> 00:56:21,440 know in the hypnotherapist her name is 1360 00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:24,349 some Lorraine Flaherty and she's out of 1361 00:56:28,870 --> 00:56:26,690 London while like sitting there on her 1362 00:56:32,380 --> 00:56:28,880 like recliner couch thing there and and 1363 00:56:34,059 --> 00:56:32,390 uh you know she addressed the UFO stuff 1364 00:56:35,859 --> 00:56:34,069 she said okay and we're gonna talk about 1365 00:56:40,359 --> 00:56:35,869 the UFO thing now and I'm like okay it's 1366 00:56:42,940 --> 00:56:40,369 like so you know what's what what what 1367 00:56:44,349 --> 00:56:42,950 what does your Higher Self need to tell 1368 00:56:47,319 --> 00:56:44,359 you that's how she's that's how she 1369 00:56:49,630 --> 00:56:47,329 phrased it he said my hoursa then like 1370 00:56:51,849 --> 00:56:49,640 my answer was this is real this is 1371 00:56:54,370 --> 00:56:51,859 really happening it really happened it's 1372 00:56:55,870 --> 00:56:54,380 like okay now if you could ask the I was 1373 00:56:59,120 --> 00:56:55,880 so like you know and why is this 1374 00:57:02,930 --> 00:56:59,130 happening and my response was 1375 00:57:04,460 --> 00:57:02,940 because it's important and it was this 1376 00:57:07,190 --> 00:57:04,470 little kind of thing where she would say 1377 00:57:10,219 --> 00:57:07,200 and why are they doing this why are they 1378 00:57:12,140 --> 00:57:10,229 taking you because they have to you know 1379 00:57:13,789 --> 00:57:12,150 it wasn't you know was so that my sense 1380 00:57:15,499 --> 00:57:13,799 is that whatever is going on and I'm 1381 00:57:17,390 --> 00:57:15,509 whatever like I could have been making 1382 00:57:20,049 --> 00:57:17,400 this up or I don't know so I don't have 1383 00:57:22,279 --> 00:57:20,059 complete trust in it you know but it was 1384 00:57:23,509 --> 00:57:22,289 you know it painted something you know 1385 00:57:25,249 --> 00:57:23,519 it wasn't like you know they're taking 1386 00:57:26,660 --> 00:57:25,259 my sperm to make hybrids you know that 1387 00:57:29,269 --> 00:57:26,670 kind of thing it did with that's not the 1388 00:57:31,249 --> 00:57:29,279 answer I gave the answer I gave was you 1389 00:57:33,589 --> 00:57:31,259 know why are they here the answer was 1390 00:57:36,829 --> 00:57:33,599 it's important so I I do recognize that 1391 00:57:39,289 --> 00:57:36,839 there's a there's something heavy about 1392 00:57:41,390 --> 00:57:39,299 this experience right and it's you know 1393 00:57:44,259 --> 00:57:41,400 the continuing of the journey you know 1394 00:57:49,039 --> 00:57:44,269 to find those answers I would assume I 1395 00:57:52,039 --> 00:57:49,049 know like you had an experience outside 1396 00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:52,049 your bedroom window with the the 1397 00:57:56,420 --> 00:57:55,170 quote-unquote graves I wanted to ask you 1398 00:57:59,749 --> 00:57:56,430 because I know throughout the book you 1399 00:58:01,219 --> 00:57:59,759 also spoke to others who have come into 1400 00:58:06,049 --> 00:58:01,229 contact with the greys and they have 1401 00:58:09,620 --> 00:58:06,059 this sense of maybe the odds factor or 1402 00:58:11,390 --> 00:58:09,630 some sense of okay I'm shutting down you 1403 00:58:13,459 --> 00:58:11,400 know what what do you what do you 1404 00:58:17,420 --> 00:58:13,469 perceive this as you know this calmness 1405 00:58:20,989 --> 00:58:17,430 that comes over in such a not calm 1406 00:58:23,329 --> 00:58:20,999 moment as it were well yeah so so I had 1407 00:58:28,249 --> 00:58:23,339 a experience this would have been in the 1408 00:58:31,459 --> 00:58:28,259 winter of 92 93 January or February in 1409 00:58:32,959 --> 00:58:31,469 93 I was living in romaine I woke up in 1410 00:58:34,309 --> 00:58:32,969 the middle of the night those are bright 1411 00:58:35,779 --> 00:58:34,319 light shining in the bedroom window I 1412 00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:35,789 sat up in bed I looked out the window 1413 00:58:41,150 --> 00:58:39,450 and there were five spindly gray aliens 1414 00:58:44,690 --> 00:58:41,160 walking towards the house and there were 1415 00:58:46,130 --> 00:58:44,700 backlit by this bright light now you 1416 00:58:47,959 --> 00:58:46,140 know that that's frightening right I 1417 00:58:48,769 --> 00:58:47,969 should freak out I should have got up I 1418 00:58:51,289 --> 00:58:48,779 should have locked the door I should 1419 00:58:53,299 --> 00:58:51,299 have grabbed a baseball bat and but I 1420 00:58:57,289 --> 00:58:53,309 didn't I heard this calm voice in my 1421 00:58:58,789 --> 00:58:57,299 head say oh yes they're here now is the 1422 00:59:01,279 --> 00:58:58,799 time to put your head on the pillow and 1423 00:59:03,650 --> 00:59:01,289 shut down and that's exactly what I did 1424 00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:03,660 I mean I probably saw this for thirty 1425 00:59:12,660 --> 00:59:07,410 seconds in and but the associated with 1426 00:59:15,150 --> 00:59:12,670 that was a weird 1427 00:59:17,370 --> 00:59:15,160 it was it's it's accurate to say was 1428 00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:17,380 dreamlike it's not accurate to say it 1429 00:59:24,479 --> 00:59:22,930 was to dream I was very vivid there's 1430 00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:24,489 sort of head in the fish ball quality to 1431 00:59:31,079 --> 00:59:28,930 the thing very clear very quiet and this 1432 00:59:34,019 --> 00:59:31,089 is reported in close up UFO sightings 1433 00:59:35,249 --> 00:59:34,029 this quietness people people don't say 1434 00:59:37,049 --> 00:59:35,259 the UFO is quiet 1435 00:59:39,089 --> 00:59:37,059 they say everything was quiet they say 1436 00:59:40,829 --> 00:59:39,099 the birds chirping and the crickets 1437 00:59:42,390 --> 00:59:40,839 you know we're quiet the leaves rustling 1438 00:59:46,079 --> 00:59:42,400 were quiet there was no traffic noise 1439 00:59:48,509 --> 00:59:46,089 coming from the road nearby you know so 1440 00:59:50,609 --> 00:59:48,519 so they're not describing a silent craft 1441 00:59:51,749 --> 00:59:50,619 there's describing an alternate on you 1442 00:59:54,059 --> 00:59:51,759 know a reality 1443 00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:54,069 somehow reality itself is altered and 1444 00:59:58,950 --> 00:59:56,650 and there's this eerie stillness that's 1445 01:00:01,349 --> 00:59:58,960 associated with this these things and in 1446 01:00:02,969 --> 01:00:01,359 an eerie stillness would be an accurate 1447 01:00:05,519 --> 01:00:02,979 way to describe what you know what I 1448 01:00:07,799 --> 01:00:05,529 felt there's a woman her name is Bridget 1449 01:00:09,029 --> 01:00:07,809 Berkeley she lives and she's she's an 1450 01:00:11,099 --> 01:00:09,039 experienced her from England 1451 01:00:12,809 --> 01:00:11,109 yeah I had a conversation with her and 1452 01:00:17,549 --> 01:00:12,819 said like well why would you describe 1453 01:00:18,719 --> 01:00:17,559 this and she said you know I um I don't 1454 01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:18,729 even think I said I would you how would 1455 01:00:22,410 --> 01:00:19,930 you describe what we're talking about 1456 01:00:23,969 --> 01:00:22,420 you know the is she's had some close-up 1457 01:00:26,489 --> 01:00:23,979 experiences and she said you know you 1458 01:00:27,779 --> 01:00:26,499 take two magnets and and you can they 1459 01:00:29,069 --> 01:00:27,789 click together right and then you pull 1460 01:00:30,450 --> 01:00:29,079 them apart and you twist them around so 1461 01:00:32,069 --> 01:00:30,460 they're polarities are opposite and 1462 01:00:33,209 --> 01:00:32,079 there's this kind of you know you try to 1463 01:00:34,829 --> 01:00:33,219 push them together and there's kind of 1464 01:00:36,209 --> 01:00:34,839 this warbling I'm doing as my hands 1465 01:00:37,289 --> 01:00:36,219 right now you can't see obviously but 1466 01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:37,299 I'm pushing my hands together and 1467 01:00:40,319 --> 01:00:38,650 they're kind of warbling a little bit 1468 01:00:43,009 --> 01:00:40,329 and they can't quite click together and 1469 01:00:47,549 --> 01:00:43,019 there's this kind of undulating 1470 01:00:49,109 --> 01:00:47,559 distorted energy that's between the the 1471 01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:49,119 magnets right you can you know exactly 1472 01:00:54,779 --> 01:00:52,450 what I'm saying yeah so she says being 1473 01:00:57,660 --> 01:00:54,789 close to the UFO is like being in 1474 01:00:59,789 --> 01:00:57,670 between those magnets and when she said 1475 01:01:01,709 --> 01:00:59,799 that I was like oh my god I you I you 1476 01:01:02,549 --> 01:01:01,719 know I know I know we you know I've 1477 01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:02,559 experienced the same thing that's 1478 01:01:09,479 --> 01:01:04,690 perfect that's perfect 1479 01:01:11,430 --> 01:01:09,489 now I've had that same experience four 1480 01:01:13,739 --> 01:01:11,440 times total oh wow 1481 01:01:15,989 --> 01:01:13,749 so in all of those were related to other 1482 01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:15,999 experiences that that were connected to 1483 01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:19,930 UFOs one of them was a dream and then 1484 01:01:30,670 --> 01:01:27,970 so I was quick you know at the time in 1485 01:01:32,380 --> 01:01:30,680 2000 and there's scuse me 1993 and that 1486 01:01:33,700 --> 01:01:32,390 winter the next morning I just got up 1487 01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:33,710 and said oh I've got it a vivid dream 1488 01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:35,690 like whoo you never even bothered to go 1489 01:01:38,349 --> 01:01:36,890 out and look in the snow to see if 1490 01:01:40,329 --> 01:01:38,359 there's any footprints 1491 01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:40,339 why would I wouldn't it was impossible 1492 01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:42,530 couldn't happened but um I'll tell you 1493 01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:43,970 the dream so the dream which I didn't 1494 01:01:46,599 --> 01:01:45,170 put in the book but I've written about 1495 01:01:48,849 --> 01:01:46,609 it and I did a little drawing of it too 1496 01:01:51,970 --> 01:01:48,859 so this totally a dreams the dream it's 1497 01:01:53,770 --> 01:01:51,980 not like don't don't think it's anything 1498 01:01:56,680 --> 01:01:53,780 else so and I and I feel like the dream 1499 01:01:58,630 --> 01:01:56,690 was somehow projected into my psyche 1500 01:02:00,490 --> 01:01:58,640 like it was stage-managed from some 1501 01:02:07,420 --> 01:02:00,500 outside source I feel this very strongly 1502 01:02:08,529 --> 01:02:07,430 I visited my brother my brother's says 1503 01:02:10,150 --> 01:02:08,539 hey you know like I'd doing this 1504 01:02:11,380 --> 01:02:10,160 government work and I probably not 1505 01:02:12,670 --> 01:02:11,390 supposed to talk about it and stuff like 1506 01:02:13,690 --> 01:02:12,680 that but you know I ain't got this thing 1507 01:02:14,980 --> 01:02:13,700 you probably interests let's go in the 1508 01:02:16,210 --> 01:02:14,990 garage I'm gonna show you this thing so 1509 01:02:17,559 --> 01:02:16,220 we walk him through his house and we 1510 01:02:19,089 --> 01:02:17,569 walk through the door in his kitchen and 1511 01:02:20,260 --> 01:02:19,099 go into his garage the garage doors down 1512 01:02:22,150 --> 01:02:20,270 like the garage is all closed and 1513 01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:22,160 there's this little flying saucer like 1514 01:02:26,770 --> 01:02:24,530 propped up on on splosh on sawhorses 1515 01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:26,780 like right next to his car I'm like oh 1516 01:02:29,829 --> 01:02:28,250 my god then where did you get this it's 1517 01:02:31,779 --> 01:02:29,839 like yeah you know some kite work had a 1518 01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:31,789 thing and he couldn't keep it and so now 1519 01:02:34,900 --> 01:02:33,170 I have it you know Mike oh my god it's a 1520 01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:34,910 flying saucer that's how weird is it 1521 01:02:39,730 --> 01:02:36,650 inside yeah but you can't get close to 1522 01:02:41,650 --> 01:02:39,740 it or distorts reality like what so I 1523 01:02:44,289 --> 01:02:41,660 walked up to it right so as I approached 1524 01:02:47,380 --> 01:02:44,299 it and got about 5 feet away I felt that 1525 01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:47,390 feeling that I felt the exact palpable 1526 01:02:52,180 --> 01:02:49,970 feeling I tried to describe earlier I'd 1527 01:02:53,829 --> 01:02:52,190 back away and it would it would go away 1528 01:02:56,500 --> 01:02:53,839 and I'd walk towards it and it would 1529 01:02:58,089 --> 01:02:56,510 come back and it was like him it was 1530 01:03:01,120 --> 01:02:58,099 like a message being delivered to my 1531 01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:01,130 through my subconscious to my waking 1532 01:03:05,049 --> 01:03:02,450 self because the next morning I was 1533 01:03:06,700 --> 01:03:05,059 immediately aware that like that I know 1534 01:03:11,289 --> 01:03:06,710 exactly why I had that dream that dream 1535 01:03:15,279 --> 01:03:11,299 was to confirm that the that that event 1536 01:03:16,599 --> 01:03:15,289 in 93 was real and it was funny in that 1537 01:03:18,039 --> 01:03:16,609 you know so I go back and forth a few 1538 01:03:19,329 --> 01:03:18,049 times and my brother is like the doors 1539 01:03:20,740 --> 01:03:19,339 open on the flying saucer it's dark 1540 01:03:22,089 --> 01:03:20,750 inside you can't really see much and 1541 01:03:23,529 --> 01:03:22,099 small and some punch bigger than a van 1542 01:03:24,970 --> 01:03:23,539 or something he's like yeah you know 1543 01:03:26,349 --> 01:03:24,980 this problem I can't get close to think 1544 01:03:27,609 --> 01:03:26,359 is the weirdest Horta thing but here's 1545 01:03:29,380 --> 01:03:27,619 what I do I take this camera and I put 1546 01:03:30,910 --> 01:03:29,390 it on the end of a big stick and then I 1547 01:03:32,559 --> 01:03:30,920 put it in the in the you know like he 1548 01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:32,569 takes a little digital camera and puts 1549 01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:34,250 it on a long selfie stick kind of thing 1550 01:03:37,870 --> 01:03:36,290 and puts it in the door in this 1551 01:03:40,180 --> 01:03:37,880 darkroom and it takes pictures and 1552 01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:40,190 that's when I woke up now my brother 1553 01:03:44,740 --> 01:03:41,810 does not have a UFO in his a flying 1554 01:03:46,930 --> 01:03:44,750 saucer in his garage never did so but 1555 01:03:51,310 --> 01:03:46,940 but that that dream had a power to it 1556 01:03:52,540 --> 01:03:51,320 and it felt like a like a like a Oh like 1557 01:03:58,270 --> 01:03:52,550 it happened for a reason like it was 1558 01:04:00,460 --> 01:03:58,280 some reassuring to me a dream yeah 1559 01:04:03,070 --> 01:04:00,470 that's that's a very interesting dream 1560 01:04:07,990 --> 01:04:03,080 and you may have ostensibly created the 1561 01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:08,000 selfie stick a selfie stick at this 1562 01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:14,690 point wow I have a couple other listener 1563 01:04:21,250 --> 01:04:16,970 questions here Mike if you don't mind on 1564 01:04:24,250 --> 01:04:21,260 the fly here in terms of the greys one 1565 01:04:26,950 --> 01:04:24,260 of our listeners was wondering do you 1566 01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:26,960 see any connection between the greys and 1567 01:04:34,660 --> 01:04:30,770 if they are considered demonic in 1568 01:04:36,100 --> 01:04:34,670 disguise as they put it well I mean you 1569 01:04:37,900 --> 01:04:36,110 know I mean who knows what demonic in 1570 01:04:42,940 --> 01:04:37,910 disguise means right so someone has a 1571 01:04:46,950 --> 01:04:42,950 UFO experience and like you know 15th 1572 01:04:49,780 --> 01:04:46,960 century you know Spain they go to their 1573 01:04:51,190 --> 01:04:49,790 you know Catholic bishop and tell the 1574 01:04:52,630 --> 01:04:51,200 story the Catholic bishop is gonna say 1575 01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:52,640 you had a demonic experience and gets 1576 01:04:55,330 --> 01:04:53,810 written down in some book and it's 1577 01:04:56,860 --> 01:04:55,340 described as a demonic experience that 1578 01:04:58,690 --> 01:04:56,870 some of those painting on a mural and 1579 01:05:00,670 --> 01:04:58,700 they today that shows up as demon and 1580 01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:00,680 you know it may not have been that at 1581 01:05:04,450 --> 01:05:02,810 all it may have been a gray alien you 1582 01:05:05,710 --> 01:05:04,460 know and it may have this minister prett 1583 01:05:09,940 --> 01:05:05,720 it as a demonic thing now I will also 1584 01:05:15,310 --> 01:05:09,950 say that that people have very dark 1585 01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:15,320 frightening experiences and so calling 1586 01:05:21,550 --> 01:05:19,130 it demonic might be completely accurate 1587 01:05:23,470 --> 01:05:21,560 in the sense that it's it's you know the 1588 01:05:25,090 --> 01:05:23,480 emotional visceral reaction is exactly 1589 01:05:28,180 --> 01:05:25,100 what you would expect from confronting a 1590 01:05:30,460 --> 01:05:28,190 demon so yeah so there's a blurriness 1591 01:05:33,820 --> 01:05:30,470 there that I can't answer it 1592 01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:33,830 you know there's it there's a like this 1593 01:05:37,780 --> 01:05:36,170 is where it's we're like Google research 1594 01:05:39,970 --> 01:05:37,790 land now I mean you're one click away 1595 01:05:41,710 --> 01:05:39,980 from so much like a flooded with 1596 01:05:43,390 --> 01:05:41,720 information if you wanted to write a 400 1597 01:05:44,550 --> 01:05:43,400 page book that that grey aliens are 1598 01:05:46,650 --> 01:05:44,560 demonic you 1599 01:05:49,470 --> 01:05:46,660 have no problem filling up a great big 1600 01:05:51,810 --> 01:05:49,480 book with available accounts right so 1601 01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:51,820 you know that's does that mean it's true 1602 01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:53,290 I don't think you know like I don't know 1603 01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:54,850 what to think of as first what may be 1604 01:05:59,310 --> 01:05:56,290 true I'm certainly you could make a very 1605 01:06:02,460 --> 01:05:59,320 forceful argument yeah and collect very 1606 01:06:04,500 --> 01:06:02,470 credible data and it counts right I 1607 01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:04,510 would imagine it's all through the lens 1608 01:06:08,340 --> 01:06:06,850 that you perceive the experience you 1609 01:06:10,590 --> 01:06:08,350 know if you're a spiritual person you 1610 01:06:13,710 --> 01:06:10,600 may see it that way if you know if 1611 01:06:17,220 --> 01:06:13,720 you're more of the shamanic you know 1612 01:06:19,650 --> 01:06:17,230 belief system it may be sort of like you 1613 01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:19,660 said a totem or a messenger of some sort 1614 01:06:24,450 --> 01:06:22,450 so yeah and I had to be all about 1615 01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:24,460 perception yeah and I had to jump way 1616 01:06:27,210 --> 01:06:25,810 back because I feel like I try to 1617 01:06:30,210 --> 01:06:27,220 perceive it from a lot of different 1618 01:06:32,550 --> 01:06:30,220 angles in the book yes and so I had to 1619 01:06:34,050 --> 01:06:32,560 step out of you know like one mind frame 1620 01:06:35,460 --> 01:06:34,060 which I do if I do have any mind frame 1621 01:06:38,220 --> 01:06:35,470 it you know like the shamanic thing was 1622 01:06:40,350 --> 01:06:38,230 just such a tidy clean fit that it that 1623 01:06:45,090 --> 01:06:40,360 and as well as um the archetype was a 1624 01:06:50,100 --> 01:06:45,100 very clean fit for um for the for the 1625 01:06:51,930 --> 01:06:50,110 why of it you know going back to the 1626 01:06:55,020 --> 01:06:51,940 alum like are you aware one of our 1627 01:06:57,630 --> 01:06:55,030 listeners wants to know of any symbolism 1628 01:06:59,880 --> 01:06:57,640 of the owl in Russia or China in 1629 01:07:01,770 --> 01:06:59,890 specific why they chose those I'm not 1630 01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:01,780 exactly sure I'm not sure either I'm 1631 01:07:08,450 --> 01:07:03,610 sure I absolutely have to think there it 1632 01:07:11,550 --> 01:07:08,460 is I mean the term shaman comes from a 1633 01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:11,560 Siberian word I can't remember the name 1634 01:07:17,340 --> 01:07:14,530 of the tribe the Inuits or the native 1635 01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:17,350 people of Siberia coined the term I 1636 01:07:22,950 --> 01:07:19,330 think was called saman and it's somehow 1637 01:07:24,990 --> 01:07:22,960 got translated as shaman so and then and 1638 01:07:26,820 --> 01:07:25,000 I know that the totem animal in that the 1639 01:07:28,170 --> 01:07:26,830 Borat tribe I can that's actually not 1640 01:07:30,930 --> 01:07:28,180 right the Borat so what's that said what 1641 01:07:34,050 --> 01:07:30,940 am I saying that's the dumb movie but um 1642 01:07:39,030 --> 01:07:34,060 so you have some drive-in in northern 1643 01:07:41,340 --> 01:07:39,040 Russia would have you know equated the 1644 01:07:44,100 --> 01:07:41,350 you know that they have all symbolism I 1645 01:07:46,950 --> 01:07:44,110 know they do when they TEDWomen so and 1646 01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:46,960 I'm quite certain that China with those 1647 01:07:50,610 --> 01:07:48,970 you know long history as all kinds of 1648 01:07:53,010 --> 01:07:50,620 owls and oh yeah symbology I don't know 1649 01:07:54,810 --> 01:07:53,020 what it is but yeah so yeah I can't 1650 01:07:57,819 --> 01:07:54,820 answer that one very well sorry no not 1651 01:08:00,489 --> 01:07:57,829 at all it's a very specific question I'm 1652 01:08:02,650 --> 01:08:00,499 just did to look further into that did 1653 01:08:04,209 --> 01:08:02,660 you come across any cases my quarrels 1654 01:08:07,180 --> 01:08:04,219 were heard but not seen 1655 01:08:08,380 --> 01:08:07,190 and in event of high strangeness may 1656 01:08:11,079 --> 01:08:08,390 have occurred do you remember anything 1657 01:08:14,049 --> 01:08:11,089 in your research of that well sure yeah 1658 01:08:16,390 --> 01:08:14,059 so woman on the beach with her husband 1659 01:08:17,769 --> 01:08:16,400 she had a stressful day she's you know 1660 01:08:19,839 --> 01:08:17,779 there I waiting to get seated at a 1661 01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:19,849 restaurant wait I like on the ocean and 1662 01:08:25,689 --> 01:08:23,810 their their drinking their margaritas 1663 01:08:28,269 --> 01:08:25,699 and Sun is setting and she hears an owl 1664 01:08:29,470 --> 01:08:28,279 hooting say quiet no owls would come to 1665 01:08:30,789 --> 01:08:29,480 a beach like this and she looks around 1666 01:08:33,189 --> 01:08:30,799 she doesn't see anything she looks up 1667 01:08:35,140 --> 01:08:33,199 into the sky and there's a silvery disc 1668 01:08:35,740 --> 01:08:35,150 shaped craft hovering far on the sky 1669 01:08:37,089 --> 01:08:35,750 above them 1670 01:08:39,339 --> 01:08:37,099 she watches it for a while and she 1671 01:08:44,620 --> 01:08:39,349 points it out to her husband and and um 1672 01:08:48,609 --> 01:08:44,630 he he he says like you know kind of a 1673 01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:48,619 doubter and he you know she's kind of 1674 01:08:52,990 --> 01:08:49,730 like well what's he gonna make of this 1675 01:08:55,149 --> 01:08:53,000 and he says like well it's very unusual 1676 01:08:56,499 --> 01:08:55,159 it's not making normal crack you know 1677 01:08:57,280 --> 01:08:56,509 motions that it would be associated with 1678 01:08:58,800 --> 01:08:57,290 any known craft 1679 01:09:00,849 --> 01:08:58,810 I'm very interesting and then she later 1680 01:09:02,470 --> 01:09:00,859 checks the newspapers and right in that 1681 01:09:04,269 --> 01:09:02,480 area over that weekend which is weird 1682 01:09:05,649 --> 01:09:04,279 it's like glass for a few days there's a 1683 01:09:07,510 --> 01:09:05,659 series of sightings and people are 1684 01:09:08,530 --> 01:09:07,520 reporting you know classic silvery 1685 01:09:15,189 --> 01:09:08,540 flying saucer 1686 01:09:17,890 --> 01:09:15,199 in that area now you know I go that's 1687 01:09:19,419 --> 01:09:17,900 that that that kind of thing shows up a 1688 01:09:21,249 --> 01:09:19,429 lot I mean people will say that you know 1689 01:09:22,599 --> 01:09:21,259 like I've got people like one woman 1690 01:09:23,769 --> 01:09:22,609 contacted me and she's like oh god I was 1691 01:09:24,820 --> 01:09:23,779 reading your book this is like what 1692 01:09:27,189 --> 01:09:24,830 since the book has come out so this is 1693 01:09:28,570 --> 01:09:27,199 the last couple of months like I was 1694 01:09:30,579 --> 01:09:28,580 reading her book and then I would you 1695 01:09:32,050 --> 01:09:30,589 know I would as soon as I'd lie in bed 1696 01:09:34,419 --> 01:09:32,060 and I'd open the book that was hooting 1697 01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:34,429 out the window and I closed the book and 1698 01:09:38,079 --> 01:09:36,650 hooting would stop Hey I open the book 1699 01:09:39,849 --> 01:09:38,089 up in the hooting would start again and 1700 01:09:41,950 --> 01:09:39,859 then I would close the book and tell my 1701 01:09:42,910 --> 01:09:41,960 husband like okay wake up wake up 1702 01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:42,920 there's no all right out the window on 1703 01:09:45,849 --> 01:09:44,210 reading a songbook isn't that weird and 1704 01:09:48,189 --> 01:09:45,859 I key without wake up huh what and it 1705 01:09:50,079 --> 01:09:48,199 would be no hooting yeah and so yes so 1706 01:09:51,700 --> 01:09:50,089 you know the hooting shows up you know a 1707 01:09:53,079 --> 01:09:51,710 fair amount yeah there's one person a 1708 01:09:54,700 --> 01:09:53,089 young guy talked to who's had his own 1709 01:09:58,839 --> 01:09:54,710 set of abduction experience and he very 1710 01:10:00,430 --> 01:09:58,849 clearly said lying in bed here's an owl 1711 01:10:02,260 --> 01:10:00,440 hooting I was window BAM next thing you 1712 01:10:07,660 --> 01:10:02,270 know there's his bed is surrounded by 1713 01:10:09,820 --> 01:10:07,670 grey aliens they just appear so yeah so 1714 01:10:11,200 --> 01:10:09,830 I mean the hooting is just as vital to 1715 01:10:13,780 --> 01:10:11,210 the whole thing is the 1716 01:10:15,670 --> 01:10:13,790 seeing them themselves you know so well 1717 01:10:17,290 --> 01:10:15,680 playing off of that I mean you looked a 1718 01:10:19,540 --> 01:10:17,300 lot into the work of Lindy Tucker as 1719 01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:19,550 well with the beeping owls in the UFO 1720 01:10:24,220 --> 01:10:21,890 connection what can you tell us about 1721 01:10:25,540 --> 01:10:24,230 that work being done yeah yeah yeah okay 1722 01:10:28,050 --> 01:10:25,550 so this is it's kind of a little bit of 1723 01:10:31,330 --> 01:10:28,060 a long story but Lindy Tucker is a 1724 01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:31,340 researcher she's Canadian she now lives 1725 01:10:36,220 --> 01:10:33,530 in America but this is back in the 70s 1726 01:10:38,170 --> 01:10:36,230 she was having sightings around her 1727 01:10:42,040 --> 01:10:38,180 house and at the same time she was 1728 01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:42,050 hearing this beeping noise and she went 1729 01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:45,650 out and recorded this beeping noise in 1730 01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:48,050 the presence of this flying craft 1731 01:10:51,430 --> 01:10:50,090 so he's she's got an audio recorder 1732 01:10:53,440 --> 01:10:51,440 she's with this other person this guy's 1733 01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:53,450 name is Christopher which shows up a lot 1734 01:10:56,020 --> 01:10:54,650 in the book don't ask me why people 1735 01:10:58,209 --> 01:10:56,030 named Chris show up all hot in the book 1736 01:11:00,459 --> 01:10:58,219 and which is like Christopher the first 1737 01:11:03,430 --> 01:11:00,469 five letters is Christ so I mean like oh 1738 01:11:05,350 --> 01:11:03,440 yeah if you want a word heavy lead you 1739 01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:05,360 know heavily laden with symbolism that's 1740 01:11:11,470 --> 01:11:08,570 it so she goes out she's she doesn't 1741 01:11:13,270 --> 01:11:11,480 audio recording of this of this owl 1742 01:11:17,740 --> 01:11:13,280 excuse me of this you off there I just 1743 01:11:19,479 --> 01:11:17,750 did it of this UFO spoil and and and you 1744 01:11:21,970 --> 01:11:19,489 can be I would put a link on your site 1745 01:11:23,350 --> 01:11:21,980 go to beeping UFOs comm it's amazing and 1746 01:11:25,690 --> 01:11:23,360 then there's a little audio clips that 1747 01:11:27,220 --> 01:11:25,700 she's put a whole bunch of minerals very 1748 01:11:29,110 --> 01:11:27,230 interesting and she has an excellent 1749 01:11:32,470 --> 01:11:29,120 article that she was published in the 1750 01:11:34,570 --> 01:11:32,480 MUFON Journal in the late 90s very 1751 01:11:37,030 --> 01:11:34,580 important to read that did so she did 1752 01:11:44,590 --> 01:11:37,040 very straight analytical clinical 1753 01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:44,600 research on what this may have been this 1754 01:11:53,590 --> 01:11:47,650 initial recording I think was 1976 in 1755 01:11:55,570 --> 01:11:53,600 Orton Ontario has this beeping noise it 1756 01:12:00,100 --> 01:11:55,580 sounds like a car backing up very 1757 01:12:01,209 --> 01:12:00,110 mechanical beep beep beep and overlaid 1758 01:12:02,260 --> 01:12:01,219 with that is looking and hear crickets 1759 01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:02,270 in the background you hear little 1760 01:12:06,760 --> 01:12:03,530 rustling from the wind and you can also 1761 01:12:08,650 --> 01:12:06,770 very clearly hear a great horned owl now 1762 01:12:11,380 --> 01:12:08,660 this like blew me away right because I 1763 01:12:12,970 --> 01:12:11,390 was like so prime does like like I'm 1764 01:12:14,320 --> 01:12:12,980 waiting I'm waiting for someone to show 1765 01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:14,330 up picture and like there's a you know 1766 01:12:17,290 --> 01:12:16,130 like there's a UFO flying saucer above 1767 01:12:19,479 --> 01:12:17,300 the trees and in one of the trees you 1768 01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:19,489 can see little owl sitting in a branch I 1769 01:12:22,990 --> 01:12:21,290 don't have that picture I want that 1770 01:12:24,170 --> 01:12:23,000 picture I'm waiting for it but I do have 1771 01:12:28,160 --> 01:12:24,180 this audio I don't have it but 1772 01:12:32,990 --> 01:12:28,170 it's this audio exists where it's an 1773 01:12:37,010 --> 01:12:33,000 it's an owl overlaid with this odd 1774 01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:37,020 beeping noise now things get weirder 1775 01:12:45,940 --> 01:12:44,370 okay so the the in the what's that 1776 01:12:47,750 --> 01:12:45,950 project Bluebook I think it's the 1777 01:12:49,190 --> 01:12:47,760 drawing a blank on that one of the 1778 01:12:50,360 --> 01:12:49,200 reports of the government but the Condon 1779 01:12:53,990 --> 01:12:50,370 report come out a report that came out 1780 01:12:55,610 --> 01:12:54,000 in late 60s they they said there's no 1781 01:12:57,170 --> 01:12:55,620 words you can't listen to anything but 1782 01:12:59,900 --> 01:12:57,180 they said we analyzed a bunch of 1783 01:13:02,360 --> 01:12:59,910 supposed recordings of UFOs and we've 1784 01:13:05,810 --> 01:13:02,370 come to the conclusion that is not a UFO 1785 01:13:06,980 --> 01:13:05,820 it is a saw wet oh now I saw what oh you 1786 01:13:08,300 --> 01:13:06,990 can go right online and click a little 1787 01:13:10,070 --> 01:13:08,310 button and listen to the call to saw 1788 01:13:12,350 --> 01:13:10,080 what all it sounds like car backing up 1789 01:13:15,890 --> 01:13:12,360 very mechanical loading noise beep beep 1790 01:13:18,110 --> 01:13:15,900 beep you know you listen to him side by 1791 01:13:19,790 --> 01:13:18,120 side just straight you know straight 1792 01:13:21,410 --> 01:13:19,800 ears you know you listen to the 1793 01:13:23,780 --> 01:13:21,420 recordings that Lindy Tucker's presented 1794 01:13:25,130 --> 01:13:23,790 you listen to a salt wet owl so I went 1795 01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:25,140 there very similar 1796 01:13:30,140 --> 01:13:26,730 you saw what owl is gonna sound a little 1797 01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:30,150 more flute like the recordings of Lindy 1798 01:13:36,620 --> 01:13:32,370 Tucker sound a little more mechanical 1799 01:13:38,030 --> 01:13:36,630 and but a researcher Ronald Stearman I 1800 01:13:40,730 --> 01:13:38,040 think is his name of the University of 1801 01:13:42,920 --> 01:13:40,740 Texas in Austin back in the 90s 1802 01:13:46,010 --> 01:13:42,930 did an exhaustive amount of research on 1803 01:13:48,200 --> 01:13:46,020 these two noises and he says they are 1804 01:13:51,080 --> 01:13:48,210 not the same the call of the saw wet 1805 01:13:52,790 --> 01:13:51,090 towel is not the same of what Lindy 1806 01:13:54,170 --> 01:13:52,800 Tucker had recorded and then Lindy 1807 01:13:56,060 --> 01:13:54,180 Tucker under very synchronistic 1808 01:13:58,220 --> 01:13:56,070 circumstances collected all kinds of 1809 01:14:00,230 --> 01:13:58,230 these things like they just kind of 1810 01:14:03,440 --> 01:14:00,240 arrived in this very strange way you 1811 01:14:08,210 --> 01:14:03,450 know so so she was doing research on 1812 01:14:10,700 --> 01:14:08,220 exactly on the sound of a UFO the 1813 01:14:13,310 --> 01:14:10,710 government dismisses this sound as an 1814 01:14:15,110 --> 01:14:13,320 owl ok so here we have the owl 1815 01:14:16,910 --> 01:14:15,120 connection she's got a recording the 1816 01:14:18,410 --> 01:14:16,920 very first recording that she did that 1817 01:14:19,790 --> 01:14:18,420 sent her on this journey that that then 1818 01:14:22,310 --> 01:14:19,800 spawned all these synchronicities and 1819 01:14:24,440 --> 01:14:22,320 getting more of this stuff 1820 01:14:28,250 --> 01:14:24,450 the very first recording she does has an 1821 01:14:34,100 --> 01:14:28,260 owl overlapping with the UFO sound this 1822 01:14:35,529 --> 01:14:34,110 peeping noise now she had she wrote up 1823 01:14:38,479 --> 01:14:35,539 this reports excellent 1824 01:14:38,989 --> 01:14:38,489 kind of well worth reading that's on the 1825 01:14:42,739 --> 01:14:38,999 site 1826 01:14:44,390 --> 01:14:42,749 beeping UFOs comm she uh this is goes 1827 01:14:45,679 --> 01:14:44,400 into the MUFON Journal and they say how 1828 01:14:46,790 --> 01:14:45,689 the deadlines coming up they talked her 1829 01:14:47,989 --> 01:14:46,800 on the phone like oh you got a good to 1830 01:14:48,979 --> 01:14:47,999 sing gotta get in the mail we got to get 1831 01:14:51,199 --> 01:14:48,989 here for the deadline this is Becca 1832 01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:51,209 Knight the 90s ancient era where things 1833 01:14:56,750 --> 01:14:52,530 like you take a piece of paper and put 1834 01:14:58,040 --> 01:14:56,760 in an envelope and so she's likes our 1835 01:14:59,719 --> 01:14:58,050 desk is messy she's searching around 1836 01:15:01,219 --> 01:14:59,729 she's got this deadline it's got his 1837 01:15:03,979 --> 01:15:01,229 full daylight the window is open 1838 01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:03,989 summer time she's got the then she sees 1839 01:15:07,219 --> 01:15:05,610 it right now he finds the document she 1840 01:15:10,189 --> 01:15:07,229 puts her finger on it as soon as she 1841 01:15:13,729 --> 01:15:10,199 touches it this beeping noise comes in 1842 01:15:16,310 --> 01:15:13,739 through the window beep beep beep the 1843 01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:16,320 same noise when she touches the document 1844 01:15:23,949 --> 01:15:20,010 that argues that the beeping noise is 1845 01:15:28,069 --> 01:15:23,959 not a Salwa towel but is instead of UFO 1846 01:15:30,830 --> 01:15:28,079 this is this is very strange stuff this 1847 01:15:36,290 --> 01:15:30,840 is very strange stuff this goes well 1848 01:15:39,049 --> 01:15:36,300 beyond like little little scientists in 1849 01:15:39,410 --> 01:15:39,059 a metal spaceship flying here to to you 1850 01:15:44,479 --> 01:15:39,420 know 1851 01:15:46,100 --> 01:15:44,489 conduct some some some experiments fun 1852 01:15:48,020 --> 01:15:46,110 on the hapless humans that live on this 1853 01:15:50,179 --> 01:15:48,030 planet something much richer and much 1854 01:15:54,529 --> 01:15:50,189 stranger is taking place than that very 1855 01:15:58,219 --> 01:15:54,539 simple explanation yeah I mean they're 1856 01:15:59,779 --> 01:15:58,229 in lay you know your entire journey like 1857 01:16:03,259 --> 01:15:59,789 I mean I remember you once saying that 1858 01:16:05,620 --> 01:16:03,269 you don't mind not finding answers and 1859 01:16:08,029 --> 01:16:05,630 that you enjoy living in the mystery 1860 01:16:12,379 --> 01:16:08,039 what about these mysteries do you find 1861 01:16:13,879 --> 01:16:12,389 most compelling well I mean I don't know 1862 01:16:15,350 --> 01:16:13,889 I mean like you get a like a mystery 1863 01:16:16,939 --> 01:16:15,360 novel right so there's got a beginning 1864 01:16:19,160 --> 01:16:16,949 middle and end right so you that there's 1865 01:16:20,810 --> 01:16:19,170 a reason like that that the dime stores 1866 01:16:22,640 --> 01:16:20,820 are well I would have a crime not sure 1867 01:16:25,129 --> 01:16:22,650 what's going on now I'd like the Kindle 1868 01:16:26,330 --> 01:16:25,139 you know rack or whatever he could I 1869 01:16:27,529 --> 01:16:26,340 mean it used to be like you'd have the 1870 01:16:29,719 --> 01:16:27,539 little rack in the in the in the 1871 01:16:31,370 --> 01:16:29,729 drugstore with all the paperbacks the 1872 01:16:33,229 --> 01:16:31,380 pulp paper bags and yeah detective 1873 01:16:34,399 --> 01:16:33,239 novels it's a mystery you know as a 1874 01:16:36,229 --> 01:16:34,409 murder right in the beginning and then 1875 01:16:37,729 --> 01:16:36,239 they solve the murder by the end but 1876 01:16:39,739 --> 01:16:37,739 that's the murder at the beginning is 1877 01:16:41,359 --> 01:16:39,749 inconsequential the solving it at the 1878 01:16:43,669 --> 01:16:41,369 end of the is isn't consequential it's 1879 01:16:46,250 --> 01:16:43,679 that it's the journey it's the story of 1880 01:16:47,240 --> 01:16:46,260 the detective which is exciting there's 1881 01:16:48,680 --> 01:16:47,250 a reason why like 1882 01:16:50,320 --> 01:16:48,690 you know I mean half the television 1883 01:16:53,540 --> 01:16:50,330 shows in the 70s where detective shows 1884 01:16:55,280 --> 01:16:53,550 it's it's it so it's solving a mystery 1885 01:16:57,110 --> 01:16:55,290 this is part of the core human 1886 01:16:58,820 --> 01:16:57,120 experience you know or likes actually 1887 01:17:00,350 --> 01:16:58,830 not even solving cuz I gotta say that 1888 01:17:01,490 --> 01:17:00,360 like but it like when you're in the 1889 01:17:02,690 --> 01:17:01,500 middle of the detective novel you don't 1890 01:17:04,010 --> 01:17:02,700 want it to end a really good one right 1891 01:17:05,690 --> 01:17:04,020 yeah you read you've read The Long 1892 01:17:10,520 --> 01:17:05,700 Goodbye right by Raymond Chandler it's 1893 01:17:11,780 --> 01:17:10,530 like like no don't end don't end um and 1894 01:17:13,310 --> 01:17:11,790 it almost doesn't matter who the 1895 01:17:14,630 --> 01:17:13,320 murderer is right you know like at the 1896 01:17:19,820 --> 01:17:14,640 end it's just gonna be the you know the 1897 01:17:23,630 --> 01:17:19,830 person you least suspect anyway so my 1898 01:17:25,250 --> 01:17:23,640 sense is that you know that's hardwired 1899 01:17:27,830 --> 01:17:25,260 into us kind of liking the mystery and 1900 01:17:29,420 --> 01:17:27,840 and I've gotten to the point now where I 1901 01:17:30,740 --> 01:17:29,430 mean I've talked to and people feel like 1902 01:17:31,730 --> 01:17:30,750 you know Richard Dolan says this he's 1903 01:17:33,770 --> 01:17:31,740 like you know I'm going to take a few 1904 01:17:36,440 --> 01:17:33,780 years out of studying you know the the 1905 01:17:38,960 --> 01:17:36,450 historical documents on the Cold War and 1906 01:17:41,240 --> 01:17:38,970 I'm gonna put some efforts into this UFO 1907 01:17:44,810 --> 01:17:41,250 thing I'm gonna solve it and then you 1908 01:17:46,330 --> 01:17:44,820 know so pat myself on the back and and 1909 01:17:49,280 --> 01:17:46,340 then take out another project 1910 01:17:50,690 --> 01:17:49,290 he hasn't solved I mean a lot of people 1911 01:17:52,310 --> 01:17:50,700 say that you know like I felt the same 1912 01:17:54,140 --> 01:17:52,320 way like I felt like I like I'll just uh 1913 01:17:55,550 --> 01:17:54,150 just write up a little essay about UFOs 1914 01:17:56,780 --> 01:17:55,560 nulls and then I'll get that out of my 1915 01:17:58,580 --> 01:17:56,790 system and I'll be done with it and 1916 01:18:00,530 --> 01:17:58,590 that's not what happened yeah it was a 1917 01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:00,540 bottomless pit you know I pick out right 1918 01:18:03,320 --> 01:18:01,890 so there's like as I said earlier 1919 01:18:05,480 --> 01:18:03,330 there's a paragraph here and there and 1920 01:18:07,880 --> 01:18:05,490 any given UFO book and it mentions all 1921 01:18:09,170 --> 01:18:07,890 somehow or another and I'm sure you know 1922 01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:09,180 like great like a little teen you the 1923 01:18:15,110 --> 01:18:12,530 tiniest little point on the outlying 1924 01:18:20,830 --> 01:18:15,120 boundaries of the of the core UFO 1925 01:18:23,210 --> 01:18:20,840 phenomena is this all stuff but you know 1926 01:18:24,110 --> 01:18:23,220 what digging into it this you know you 1927 01:18:26,360 --> 01:18:24,120 would think it would just be like a 1928 01:18:29,540 --> 01:18:26,370 little a little aside in the literature 1929 01:18:32,270 --> 01:18:29,550 but it's just its its own beast it is 1930 01:18:33,710 --> 01:18:32,280 it's it's a bottomless pit and not only 1931 01:18:38,060 --> 01:18:33,720 a bottomless paid it's a bottomless pit 1932 01:18:40,640 --> 01:18:38,070 of wonderfully engaging eerie evocative 1933 01:18:43,820 --> 01:18:40,650 stories so so yeah I don't have a good 1934 01:18:46,670 --> 01:18:43,830 answer to to what it is I but it is has 1935 01:18:49,040 --> 01:18:46,680 been just so fascinating I've given up 1936 01:18:55,550 --> 01:18:49,050 trying to solve it and I'm content with 1937 01:18:57,080 --> 01:18:55,560 the mystery and yes yes I don't I wish I 1938 01:18:59,490 --> 01:18:57,090 had I wish I had a good answer to that 1939 01:19:04,180 --> 01:18:59,500 all I can say is that 1940 01:19:05,290 --> 01:19:04,190 it's it's been um I don't know I mean 1941 01:19:06,820 --> 01:19:05,300 it's changed my life it's change the 1942 01:19:08,470 --> 01:19:06,830 direction of my life this think of the 1943 01:19:10,480 --> 01:19:08,480 question why owls yeah 1944 01:19:15,450 --> 01:19:10,490 why elves exactly I mean you have 1945 01:19:18,340 --> 01:19:15,460 clearly lifted a veil of sorts on a very 1946 01:19:20,890 --> 01:19:18,350 interesting topic pertaining to the UFO 1947 01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:20,900 phenomenon as a quote-unquote whole like 1948 01:19:26,470 --> 01:19:24,770 you said this is a small small fraction 1949 01:19:27,970 --> 01:19:26,480 of this isn't it over a minute overlaps 1950 01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:27,980 with other things kind of a guy who says 1951 01:19:31,180 --> 01:19:29,210 like you know like I went on the field 1952 01:19:32,560 --> 01:19:31,190 and I meditated and I actually asked the 1953 01:19:33,850 --> 01:19:32,570 world you know like how can I be of 1954 01:19:35,650 --> 01:19:33,860 service to the world I need a sign I 1955 01:19:37,420 --> 01:19:35,660 want to give back to the world how can I 1956 01:19:38,920 --> 01:19:37,430 be of service and he closes his eyes and 1957 01:19:40,420 --> 01:19:38,930 meditates in this field he opens his 1958 01:19:42,370 --> 01:19:40,430 eyes and there's an owl in the field 1959 01:19:44,350 --> 01:19:42,380 with them you know the the woman who's 1960 01:19:46,330 --> 01:19:44,360 had UFO experiences you know goes in the 1961 01:19:48,160 --> 01:19:46,340 woods and meditates and and she says I 1962 01:19:49,300 --> 01:19:48,170 need to find my spirit name you know and 1963 01:19:50,740 --> 01:19:49,310 then she opens her eyes and there's owl 1964 01:19:53,260 --> 01:19:50,750 like right on the branch right in front 1965 01:19:56,470 --> 01:19:53,270 of her you know like the the people who 1966 01:20:00,340 --> 01:19:56,480 have seen you know the guy doing death 1967 01:20:01,930 --> 01:20:00,350 research is catalogued all these strange 1968 01:20:04,390 --> 01:20:01,940 stories of owls showing up at people's 1969 01:20:07,570 --> 01:20:04,400 homes after after after uh someone has 1970 01:20:08,500 --> 01:20:07,580 passed that doesn't mean some of the 1971 01:20:09,940 --> 01:20:08,510 stuff doesn't have anything to do with 1972 01:20:12,370 --> 01:20:09,950 UFOs but it does have to do with a 1973 01:20:14,530 --> 01:20:12,380 deeper mystery that's beyond the veil in 1974 01:20:18,480 --> 01:20:14,540 that realm where the owl would travel 1975 01:20:28,060 --> 01:20:23,800 alternate form of reality you know so 1976 01:20:29,890 --> 01:20:28,070 yeah this this it's been yes yes so that 1977 01:20:31,090 --> 01:20:29,900 was the you know the thing that sort of 1978 01:20:32,830 --> 01:20:31,100 shook me up a little bit about this book 1979 01:20:34,720 --> 01:20:32,840 was that you know like wow it did this 1980 01:20:36,640 --> 01:20:34,730 is blurs but there's not a delineated 1981 01:20:38,170 --> 01:20:36,650 line and the UFO thing doesn't stop at 1982 01:20:40,480 --> 01:20:38,180 this one boundary you step over the 1983 01:20:44,860 --> 01:20:40,490 fence and then the the meditation thing 1984 01:20:48,280 --> 01:20:44,870 begins they overlap exactly well I mean 1985 01:20:50,940 --> 01:20:48,290 and they continue as well Mike I mean 1986 01:20:55,060 --> 01:20:50,950 rumor has it you're working on a a 1987 01:20:56,860 --> 01:20:55,070 sequel to the book and it's not it's not 1988 01:20:59,110 --> 01:20:56,870 a rumor it's a fact I'm very open about 1989 01:21:01,990 --> 01:20:59,120 it so you're not giving away bulging 1990 01:21:03,190 --> 01:21:02,000 anything's get kick butt so in the in 1991 01:21:04,360 --> 01:21:03,200 the context of doing the book you know 1992 01:21:07,660 --> 01:21:04,370 what I found is that there's these 1993 01:21:09,760 --> 01:21:07,670 stories writing this like in this this 1994 01:21:11,310 --> 01:21:09,770 is almost six and I actually used a term 1995 01:21:16,509 --> 01:21:11,320 um 1996 01:21:18,069 --> 01:21:16,519 the paradox syndrome to describe these 1997 01:21:19,359 --> 01:21:18,079 and that sounds lofty and I wish I had a 1998 01:21:20,589 --> 01:21:19,369 better term but it was kind of like I 1999 01:21:21,850 --> 01:21:20,599 needed to like say like you know what 2000 01:21:23,080 --> 01:21:21,860 kind of find these stories and they just 2001 01:21:24,910 --> 01:21:23,090 there's they that's like there's an 2002 01:21:27,489 --> 01:21:24,920 example here and I call its paradox and 2003 01:21:30,009 --> 01:21:27,499 room where you get a story and doesn't 2004 01:21:31,989 --> 01:21:30,019 make any sense long it's complicated it 2005 01:21:33,339 --> 01:21:31,999 just page after page after page to write 2006 01:21:34,569 --> 01:21:33,349 these accounts up and you talk go back 2007 01:21:35,709 --> 01:21:34,579 and forth of the person I'm like well 2008 01:21:37,029 --> 01:21:35,719 what else happened and when this other 2009 01:21:40,089 --> 01:21:37,039 thing happened it just goes on and on 2010 01:21:42,430 --> 01:21:40,099 and on and and it doesn't make any sense 2011 01:21:44,020 --> 01:21:42,440 it loops back on itself there's no point 2012 01:21:45,489 --> 01:21:44,030 at the end where it just culminates 2013 01:21:48,609 --> 01:21:45,499 since someone has an answer it just is 2014 01:21:50,770 --> 01:21:48,619 this loopy logic and it just you know a 2015 01:21:55,419 --> 01:21:50,780 mess of synchronicities and all stories 2016 01:21:57,040 --> 01:21:55,429 and UFOs and and they were too long to 2017 01:21:58,600 --> 01:21:57,050 put in the book right so there's couple 2018 01:22:02,529 --> 01:21:58,610 that I did put in there you know that 2019 01:22:04,120 --> 01:22:02,539 have this quality and I initially wanted 2020 01:22:06,430 --> 01:22:04,130 to put all these stories as an appendix 2021 01:22:08,140 --> 01:22:06,440 just have a set of but it just didn't it 2022 01:22:09,609 --> 01:22:08,150 was there you know wouldn't it worked in 2023 01:22:11,770 --> 01:22:09,619 a book format so the easier thing was 2024 01:22:13,239 --> 01:22:11,780 just make a separate book so yeah so the 2025 01:22:14,770 --> 01:22:13,249 separate book is gonna read hopefully 2026 01:22:17,169 --> 01:22:14,780 like a collection of short stories and 2027 01:22:18,489 --> 01:22:17,179 I'll try to try to keep my speculation 2028 01:22:23,169 --> 01:22:18,499 to a minimum and just let the stories 2029 01:22:24,609 --> 01:22:23,179 stand on their own but um so the working 2030 01:22:26,410 --> 01:22:24,619 title has stories from the messengers 2031 01:22:28,330 --> 01:22:26,420 they'll have a cover very similar to the 2032 01:22:30,640 --> 01:22:28,340 messenger that I'll picture on the the 2033 01:22:33,399 --> 01:22:30,650 present book and and hopefully they'll 2034 01:22:36,069 --> 01:22:33,409 be available side-by-side and if one if 2035 01:22:37,689 --> 01:22:36,079 you read one you might be you know eager 2036 01:22:38,709 --> 01:22:37,699 to read the other so they're just 2037 01:22:40,239 --> 01:22:38,719 stories that are too long and too 2038 01:22:42,359 --> 01:22:40,249 complicated and these long and 2039 01:22:46,270 --> 01:22:42,369 complicated stories have a sort of a 2040 01:22:48,790 --> 01:22:46,280 proof to me anyway you know that the 2041 01:22:51,969 --> 01:22:48,800 weirdness that you're almost see the 2042 01:22:53,160 --> 01:22:51,979 irrationality of them and Streep her the 2043 01:22:55,959 --> 01:22:53,170 wife of Whitley Strieber 2044 01:22:57,459 --> 01:22:55,969 had a like you know she said you know 2045 01:23:01,180 --> 01:22:57,469 like I have a detector I've got 2046 01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:01,190 a BS detector and I you know if people 2047 01:23:05,770 --> 01:23:03,530 tell me a story and it's not weird I 2048 01:23:07,239 --> 01:23:05,780 don't buy it you know if you try to make 2049 01:23:09,729 --> 01:23:07,249 up a UFO story it's gonna make up 2050 01:23:10,839 --> 01:23:09,739 something logical right yes and but 2051 01:23:13,810 --> 01:23:10,849 that's not what people are telling you 2052 01:23:15,580 --> 01:23:13,820 people are telling illogical stories so 2053 01:23:17,020 --> 01:23:15,590 these stories are perfectly illogical I 2054 01:23:19,870 --> 01:23:17,030 don't understand why they play out the 2055 01:23:22,029 --> 01:23:19,880 way they do but and then I you know I 2056 01:23:23,530 --> 01:23:22,039 just wanted to UM so yes so this 2057 01:23:24,610 --> 01:23:23,540 follow-up book is 2058 01:23:28,300 --> 01:23:24,620 hopefully we'll read as a book of short 2059 01:23:30,880 --> 01:23:28,310 stories great where can we find the 2060 01:23:32,830 --> 01:23:30,890 recent book Mike you can find it on 2061 01:23:34,390 --> 01:23:32,840 Amazon you can find it on my website you 2062 01:23:36,250 --> 01:23:34,400 can find it on Richard Dolan's website 2063 01:23:37,570 --> 01:23:36,260 you can go to your local bookstore and 2064 01:23:39,460 --> 01:23:37,580 walk up to the counter and say can you 2065 01:23:41,410 --> 01:23:39,470 look up a book by Mike Cleland called 2066 01:23:43,630 --> 01:23:41,420 the messengers and they'll find it 2067 01:23:44,950 --> 01:23:43,640 within a couple keystrokes so it's out 2068 01:23:46,030 --> 01:23:44,960 there and I would prefer everyone go to 2069 01:23:47,890 --> 01:23:46,040 their local book store because those 2070 01:23:50,110 --> 01:23:47,900 they're not gonna be around for long so 2071 01:23:51,520 --> 01:23:50,120 absolutely those people have kids and 2072 01:23:53,950 --> 01:23:51,530 those kids are hungry so you gotta have 2073 01:23:57,640 --> 01:23:53,960 help support your local bookstore for 2074 01:24:00,360 --> 01:23:57,650 Shelley and when where can we find your 2075 01:24:04,630 --> 01:24:00,370 other work Mike there's my blog is 2076 01:24:07,690 --> 01:24:04,640 hidden experience dot blog spot.com I 2077 01:24:08,770 --> 01:24:07,700 have been mostly using it just promotion 2078 01:24:10,180 --> 01:24:08,780 I'm sad to say I but I've been so 2079 01:24:11,650 --> 01:24:10,190 wrapped up in these books things to love 2080 01:24:13,990 --> 01:24:11,660 so the recent posts are kind of 2081 01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:14,000 promoting the book but there's all kinds 2082 01:24:17,740 --> 01:24:16,010 of stuff in there it's a lot now that 2083 01:24:18,970 --> 01:24:17,750 it's seven years old which we figured 2084 01:24:20,920 --> 01:24:18,980 out this makes me feel a little weird 2085 01:24:24,940 --> 01:24:20,930 that I've been doing it this long seven 2086 01:24:27,220 --> 01:24:24,950 years of blogging like this and then 2087 01:24:31,990 --> 01:24:27,230 there's a bunch of audio interviews and 2088 01:24:34,480 --> 01:24:32,000 there's even an audio reading of one of 2089 01:24:36,870 --> 01:24:34,490 the chapters of the book that's posted 2090 01:24:41,830 --> 01:24:36,880 online and that would be read by you oh 2091 01:24:43,510 --> 01:24:41,840 you shameless promotion yes um I mean 2092 01:24:44,950 --> 01:24:43,520 I've been captivated by your work for 2093 01:24:48,580 --> 01:24:44,960 years now Mike and it was an honor to 2094 01:24:51,100 --> 01:24:48,590 read just one chapter I look forward to 2095 01:24:54,900 --> 01:24:51,110 hopefully reading more your work is 2096 01:24:56,800 --> 01:24:54,910 prolific it is extremely relevant and I 2097 01:24:58,930 --> 01:24:56,810 can't wait to see what you bring to the 2098 01:25:01,810 --> 01:24:58,940 table next man and maybe we'll finally 2099 01:25:04,270 --> 01:25:01,820 get some some of those messages we're 2100 01:25:06,010 --> 01:25:04,280 all waiting to hear so I want to thank 2101 01:25:06,620 --> 01:25:06,020 you for joining us thank you so much 2102 01:25:10,470 --> 01:25:06,630 it's been an honor 2103 01:25:10,660 --> 01:25:10,480 [Music] 2104 01:25:23,670 --> 01:25:10,670 [Applause] 2105 01:25:24,160 --> 01:25:23,680 [Music] 2106 01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:24,170 [Applause] 2107 01:25:28,090 --> 01:25:25,810 [Music] 2108 01:25:29,890 --> 01:25:28,100 somewhere in the skies is produced by 2109 01:25:31,990 --> 01:25:29,900 Third Kind productions in association 2110 01:25:34,120 --> 01:25:32,000 with antica productions and the antic a